§ 2.35 p.m.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government if they are aware that the fare by coach from London to Bath is 28s. 3d. return, seat guaranteed, taking 5¼ hours, whereas the fare by rail (second class) is 45s. return, no seat guaranteed, taking 2 to 2½ hours; and whether they will call the attention of the British Transport Commission to these facts.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD CHESHAM)My Lords, I do not think that my right honourable friend would need to call the attention of the British Transport Commission to these facts. Long-distance coach travel by road is usually cheaper than second-class travel by rail. The Commission are free within the limits of the authority given to them by Charges Schemes settled by the Transport Tribunal to fix their railway passenger fares. While the level of fares by long-distance coach has no doubt a bearing on this matter, there are other factors to be taken into consideration, including speed, frequency and availability of service.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware that a great many people would sympathise with the dictum that, taking one year with another, the railways should pay for themselves, but that many would, nevertheless, wonder why there must be such a large discrepancy between the charges? While it may not be necessary to call the new 1176 management's attention to figures like this, is it not desirable that they should realise that, unless they can compete better with the road, they will not be likely to secure the traffic?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I think that in assessing this matter, my noble friend ought to bear in mind the question of frequency, speed and availability, as I mentioned in my Answer. The fastest train takes one hour, thirty-nine minutes—it goes every day—as against 5¼ hours. Eighteen trains go each day as opposed to four coaches, each of which holds a very small proportion of the number carried by a train. I think those points should be taken into consideration, to say nothing of the question of cheap half-day returns and weekly returns, which in some cases are lower than the coach fare.
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, would the noble Lord call the attention of his noble friend to the fact that the road coach services receive their permanent way, signalling and accident services free, whilst the British Transport Commission has to pay for those services out of its normal revenue?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I think my noble friend is reasonably aware of the position.