HL Deb 21 February 1961 vol 228 cc969-76

3.50 p.m.

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR COLONIAL AFFAIRS (THE EARL OF PERTH)

My Lords, if it is convenient to you, I will now make the statement on the Northern Rhodesian Constitutional Conference which is being made at the same time in another place.

The Northern Rhodesian Constitutional Conference concluded at Lancaster House on Friday, February 17. A record of the proceedings is being published as a White Paper, Command No. 1295, and is now available in the Printed Paper Office. The White Paper makes clear how far apart the views of the political parties in Northern Rhodesia regarding constitutional change were, and have remained. Accordingly, it became necessary for my right honourable friend to put forward a plan on behalf of Her Majesty's Government. The details are given in the White Paper, and I would here only refer to the main features.

First, there should be an enlarged Legislative Council containing about 45 elected members. The Legislative Council should be composed of three elements—a number of members elected by voters on the Upper Roll, an equal number of members elected by voters on the Lower Roll, and a substantial number of "national" seats in which candidates would have to obtain some measure of support from both Rolls. A possible division would be 15 on the Upper Roll. 15 on the Lower Roll and 15 national seats.

In the national constituencies it is contemplated that to qualify for election candidates should obtain the same prescribed minimum percentage of the votes cast on each Roll and that the voting Dower of the two Rolls would be equalised by averaging the percentage of votes cast on each Roll which is secured by each candidate. There are obviously points on this part of the scheme which will require further consideration. In addition to the elected members, there would be up to six official members: and one or two nominated member; might be added.

Her Majesty's Government feel that this plan, taken as a whole, would achieve the objective of securing a substantially increased number of African members on the Council and at the same time maintain the principle of a nonracial, political approach in which political parties are obliged to seek support from both races. An outline scheme for franchise qualifications on the Lower Roll, which would, it is estimated, enable about 70,000 Africans to be enfranchised on this Roll, is given in the White Paper. It is not intended that there should be any major changes in the qualifications for voters on the Upper Roll, but the alterations which we have in mind might result in between 1,500 and 2,000 African voters becoming eligible for the Upper Roll in addition to those now qualifying.

Under the present responsibilities of the Territorial Government, the Executive Council would consist of three or four officials and six unofficials. The Governor would be Chairman and the Council would be advisory to him. In making his appointments, the Governor would consult with, and pay due regard to, the person or persons who appear to him to command the widest measure of support in the legislature. The Unofficials would include at least 2 African and at least 2 non-African members of the Legislative Council. In addition, Parliamentary Secretaries might be appointed

The Conference agreed that a House of Chiefs should be established in Northern Rhodesia, and full details of this proposal are given in the White Paper.

My right honourable friend informed the Conference that in the view of Her Majesty's Government the new Constitution should include a Bill of Rights designed to safeguard the rights of individuals and the interests of minorities: and that consideration should also be given to the creation of a Constitutional Council to afford protection against unfair discrimination or other contravention of the rights guaranteed to individuals. The application of the provisions of the United Kingdom Government's plan to Barotseland will be discussed with the Paramount Chief.

Naturally, many matters still remain to be settled—for example, the delimitation of constituencies; the way in which national members are to be returned, and matters relating to franchise qualifications. My right honourable friend is asking the Governor to give early consideration to these matters, and to bring into consultation with him the political groups in Northern Rhodesia. He will then put forward his recommendations, and Her Majesty's Government will advise Her Majesty on the constitutional changes to be introduced.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, we desire to thank the noble Earl for giving us the statement which has been made in another place, a statement which is, of course, very very important indeed. I think that all of us, before we can say very much, will have to make our own very careful study of the White Paper, which is not yet in our hands. I might say, however, that, judging from Press and wireless reports, it would appear that this Conference on the Constitution of Northern Rhodesia has not successfully met the African point of view, and that this is likely to have been because the proposals of Her Majesty's Government have not followed the views of the majority, set out in the Report of the Monckton Commission. They say, in paragraph 114: Most of us … recommend that there should be an African majority in the Legislature and an unofficial majority in the Executive Council so constituted as to reflect the composition of the Legislature. Some of us feel that the time has not yet come for an African majority in the Legislature. Others feel that there should be an African majority in the, Executive Council as well as in the legislature. Of course, the view of the majority of the Members of the Commission was undoubted.

My Lords, there is now, it seems to me, a most delicate and dangerous situation, in which some of the things that are being said by advocates either of African supremacy, or of White supremacy, are calculated not to heal but to widen the breach. I hope that better judgments may lead to a lessening of tension, recognising that in both sides there are strong elements in favour both of rapid advance in the African part of the Constitution and the establishment of a multi-racial constitution. As I have not yet fully studied the statement made to-day, and still have to study the White Paper, I do not propose to say any more, except to urge that an arrangement be made, through the usual channels, for an early debate in your Lordships' House.

VISCOUNT HAILSHAM

My Lords, I might say, so far as the debate is concerned, that that will be done. My noble friend will deal with the substance of what the noble Viscount has said, but the noble Viscount will not forget that there is, in fact, on the Order Paper a Motion in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, which will soon come on for discussion.

LORD REA

My Lords, may I just add my voice to what has been said from the Labour Benches? I think the noble Earl. Lord Perth, has our sympathy for the very difficult time he and his colleagues have been going through. With his well-known sincerity and conscientiousness, I am sure that it has told particularly upon him. As to the outcome, we are sorry: I will not say more than that. I think your Lordships will agree that the noble Viscount who leads the Opposition has to-day put the view of every Party in this House in urging a temperate, quiet and rather slow approach to this most delicate position.

THE EARL OF SWINTON

My Lords, I wonder if I might add a few words and ask two questions? I think we all agree that we shall want to give very careful study to the White Paper, and I am sure we should all echo the statesmanlike words spoken by the noble Viscount the Leader of the Opposition as to the importance of the views of moderate men on both sides having a chance to prevail and be effective. I followed as well as I could the statement made by the Minister of State and, as I followed it, I gathered the answers to two questions, which I would put to him as d should like them confirmed. The first is this. Am I right in understanding that under the Northern Rhodesian proposals, as in the Southern Rhodesian plan, which has already been published as a White Paper, in a number of seats candidates will have to be voted for and elected by voters on both classes of register, higher and lower, or what is called in the Southern Rhodesian White Paper, A and B rolls?

My second question, following from that, is this. If I am right in that reading of the Northern Rhodesian proposals, do they not maintain the principle —to my mind, the vital principle—of combining a qualitative franchise with a common roll, which was so clearly and admirably stated, if I may say so, in the White Paper of my noble friend the former Secretary of State for the Colonies? I would only say that, while awaiting the debate, if I am right in my construction of the proposals, then I think that in principle they must command the support of all of us on both sides who have worked so hard and so long for racial non-discrimination and racial partnership.

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, perhaps it may be convenient if I answered immediately the two question put by the noble Earl. To both those questions the answer is a categorical, Yes—that is to say, there are candidates, the national candidates, who will be voted for by both upper and tower rolls and therefore will need to make an appeal to voters on both upper and lower rolls; and secondly, the principle of the qualitative franchise remains as a necessary part of the whole scheme. I am very glad of the conclusion which the noble Earl draws as a result of these two answers.

I would also take this opportunity of saying how grateful I am to the noble Viscount, Lord Alexander of Hillsborough, for his suggestion that we should avoid at this moment anything which might increase tension, because, as both he and the noble Lord, Lord Rea, pointed out, these are delicate times and we are most anxious that nothing should be done which would cause increasing tension. It is very right that the final debate and conclusions on our plan must await a detailed study of the White Paper. But the noble Viscount asked why we did not follow more closely the recommendations which some members of the Monckton Commission put forward. The answer is quite simply that we believe that what we have put forward is better, because it maintains the principle of a non-racial approach which does not rule out or guarantee a majority to any race but works on a non-racial basis.

4.3 p.m.

VISCOUNT BOYD OF MERTON

My Lords, it is unusual, but I believe not unprecedented, to address your Lordships' House for the first time by means of an intervention of this kind. In the circumstances, I feel obliged to ask for a double measure of indulgence. As I was the author, along with the noble Earl, Lord Perth, of the White Paper of 1958, I think it would be appropriate if, very briefly, I made a few observations.

Both my right honourable friend the Colonial Secretary and I had to reach our own decisions regarding the advice which we felt we should tender to Her Majesty. In his case, as in mine, the solution is a complicated one, as your Lordships will realise, having heard the statement to-clay, but the problem is a very complicated one as well. I think it is true that both the Colonial Secretary and I have come to the same conclusion: that parity between the races or something more or something less would lead inevitably to a dead-end or to a struggle for power fought out on a purely racial basis, involving the domination of one of the major races., as such, in Northern Rhodesia by the other race as such.

To-day, Her Majesty's Government, as I myself, are determined to work for a system under which candidates in any contested seat will be obliged to appeal to the voters of other races than their own, so that politics in Northern Rhodesia should develop on Party and not on racial lines. Both I and my successor have had to accept the fact that in present circumstances in certain areas in Northern Rhodesia the race of a candidate is a predominant consideration in the eyes of the local people. While recognising this, both my successor, so far as I can see, and I, are determined to see that nothing that is done, recognising this fact, should frustrate our aim to provide for the development of Party politics on non-racial lines.

These were the clear intentions of Her Majesty's Government two years ago and I hope and believe that they are the intentions of Her Majesty's Government to-day. If so, then I am sure that we shall all give very sympathetic consideration to the White Paper, when we read it, and to the forthcoming talks in Lusaka. There are a number of things relating to national seats, to the delimitation of constituencies, to the franchise and to the gradual merging of the two rolls, on which it would be impossible to come to any kind of conclusion in advance of reading of the White Paper.

In conclusion, may I say that in any debate we may have, I am sure that we shall be told by Her Majesty's Government why, after only two years, any changes other than ordinary evolutionary changes, were necessary. I know that Her Majesty's Government recognise that constitutional changes or a Bill of Rights or assurances of this kind, to have validity and confidence placed in them, must have an air of permanence about them. I am grateful to your Lordships for allowing me to make these observations.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, while congratulating the noble Viscount on having made his maiden speech in this House, may I say that if there are any more speeches on the lines of the one just delivered we must go on with the debate —exactly what I wanted to avoid.

VISCOUNT HAILSHAM

My Lords, while I should like to say that the whole House is grateful to my noble friend for his intervention, which, after all, only he could make, I hope that it will not deprive the House of the benefit of what I would call, without derogation, a proper maiden speech later, so that we may have, as it were, a pleasure twice enjoyed. At the same time, I think that probably the House had better take the advice of the noble Viscount and not pursue this particular matter further at the present time. After all, the great majority of Members of the House have not read the White Paper, and the object of this statement has been to place the White Paper before Parliament and the nation in the hope that it may be studied on its merits and then debated on its merits before attitudes are taken in advance of reading it.

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, perhaps I may say what a pleasure it is to me to hear my late chief make his first statement, even if it is on this occasion, in this House. I would just add this. As he says, your Lordships will find from the statement I have made that we have maintained the principle of a non-racial political approach; and secondly, on the question of changes, as he says, that is appropriate for the debate.