HL Deb 07 December 1961 vol 236 cc175-80

3.46 p.m.

Amendments reported (according to Order).

Clause 8 [Remuneration of recorders, chairmen of county sessions and their deputies and assistants]:

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT KILMUIR) moved in subsection (1) after "county" to insert: or to any person temporarily acting as such a chairman or deputy chairman". The noble and learned Viscount said: My Lords, I think it would be for the convenience of the House if your Lordships allowed me to take this Amendment with Amendments Nos. 4, 5, 6, the first part of Amendment No. 8, Amendment No. 9 and Amendment No. 12. All these Amendments are designed to extend the provisions of Clause 8 to cover the fixing of the remuneration of acting chairmen and deputy chairmen of quarter sessions. Since the Lord Chancellor will in future determine the rates of remuneration of such short-term appointments as those of deputy and assistant recorders where borough quarter sessions are concerned, it seems appropriate for him to control the rates for acting appointments at county quarter sessions. Most of the Amendments deal with the consequential Amendments in the relevant Acts of Parliament. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 29, after ("county") insert the said words.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, the purpose of this subsection is to make clear that Clause 8 does not apply to the remuneration of the recorders of Liverpool and Manchester, and also to the remuneration of the recorder of the City of London. These are provided for by statutory and other processes and therefore it is unnecessary to have them in the Bill. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— ("This section does not apply to the remuneration of the recorder of Liverpool or of Manchester while a judge of the Crown Court of Liverpool and the Crown Court at Manchester or to the remuneration of the recorder of the City of London.")— (The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 10 [Extension of jurisdiction of quarter sessions and magistrates' courts]:

3.49 p.m.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, this is an Amendment which is consequential on paragraph 7 of the Third Schedule to the Bill, which has raised the limit within which magistrates have jurisdiction over certain forgery offences from £20 to £100. I explained this point on Second Reading, and in accordance with a recommendation of the Streatfeild Committee this limit is so raised. There is a parallel limitation on the jurisdiction of quarter sessions, and it is desirable that this limit should be raised pari passu with that on magistrates' jurisdiction. The Amendment does this. I beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Page 5, line 15, at end insert— ("() In the First Schedule to the Criminal Justice Act, 1925 (which specifies certain offences which a court of quarter sessions has jurisdiction to try) in paragraph 6 (offences under the Forgery Act, 1913) for the words 'twenty pounds', in both places where they occur, there shall be substituted the words 'one hundred pounds'.").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Fourth Schedule [Enactments Amended]:

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, this Amendment is consequential on Amendment No. 1. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 12, line 13, at end insert—

("The Quarter Sessions (London) Act, 1896

In section two, for the words from 'the sum' to the end of the section there shall be substituted the words such remuneration as may be determined under section eight of the Criminal Justice Administration Act, 1961'.").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, this Amendment also is consequential on Amendment No. 1. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 12, line 18, at end insert—

("The Lancashire Quarter Sessions Act, 1928

In section nine, for the words from 'such fee' to the end of the section there shall be substituted the words 'such remuneration as may be determined under section eight of the Criminal Justice Administration Act, 1961'.").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, this Amendment also is consequential on Amendment No. 1. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 12, line 29, at end insert—

("The Middlesex County Council Act, 1944

In subsection (3) of section three hundred and ninety-five, for the words from 'by way of' to the end of the subsection there shall be substituted the words 'such remuneration as may be determined under section eight of the Criminal Justice Administration Act, 1961'.").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, Amendment No. 7, the second half of No. 8, and Nos. 10 and 14 on the Marshalled List similarly bring the remunerations of the chairman and deputy chairmen of Lancashire Quarter Sessions within the scope of Clause 8. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 12, line 33, at end insert—

("The Cheshire and Lancashire County Councils (Runcorn—Widnes Bridge, etc.) Act, 1947

In subsection (1) of section eighty-one, for the words from 'such salary' to the end of the subsection there shall be substituted the words 'such remuneration as may be determined under section eight of the Criminal Justice Administration Act, 1961'.").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, as I informed your Lordships, the first part of this Amendment is consequential on Amendment No. 1. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 12, line 37, at end insert—

("The Hertfordshire County Council Act. 1960

In section forty-nine, in subsection (2), for the words 'from such fee' to the end of the subsection there shall be substituted the words 'such remuneration as may be determined under section eight of the Criminal Justice Administration Act, 1961'; and in subsection (4), for the words 'All fees' there shall be substituted the words 'Any remuneration'.

The Lancashire Quarter Sessions Act, 1961

In subsection (1) of section five, for the words from 'approved' to the end of the subsection there shall be substituted the words 'determined under section eight of the Criminal Justice Administration Act, 1961'.").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Fifth Schedule [Enactments Repealed]:

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, this Amendment is consequential on Amendment No. 1. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 14, leave out lines 27 to 29.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, as I informed your Lordships, this Amendment is consequential on Amendment No. 7. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 14, leave out line 39.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, Section 396 of the Middlesex County Council Act, 1944, dealt specifically with the pension rights of a gentleman, now dead, who was chairman of Middlesex Sessions in 1944. As both he and his wife are dead, the provision is suspended. I beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Page 14, line 40, at end insert—

("7 & 8 Geo. 6. c. xxi. The Middlesex County Council Act, 1944. Section three hundred and ninety six.")
—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, this Amendment is consequential on Amendment No. 1. I beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Page 14, line 47, at end insert—

("2 & 3 Eliz. 2. c. xxiv. The London County Council (General Powers) Act, 1954 Section fifteen.")
—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD

My Lords, this Amendment deals with a subsection of the Hertfordshire County, Council Act, 1960. The subsection deals with membership of the Appeals Committee of the county quarter sessions. It is therefore repealed in consequence of the provisions of Clause 4, subsection (5), of the Bill. I beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Page 15 line 17, at end insert—

("8 & 9 Eliz. 2. c. xlix. The Hertford shire County Council Act, 1960 In section forty-nine, subsection (1)."
—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, as your Lordships will be glad to see, this is the last Amendment, and it is consequential on Amendment No. 7. I beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Page 15, line 26, at end insert—

("9 & 10 Eliz. 2. c. xiv. The Lancashire Quarter Sessions Act, 1961. In section seven, in subsection (2), paragraph (d).")
—(The Lord Chancellor.)

LORD SILKIN

My Lords, I know that I am out of order in raising this point, but on the Committee stage there were a number of Amendments and the noble and learned Viscount gave certain assurances that certain matters which were raised in Committee would be considered by him, and on the strength of those assurances Amendments were withdrawn. I refer particularly to an Amendment by myself and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goddard. The noble and learned Viscount has been good enough to write to me, and I presume that he has also written to Lord Goddard. But I would ask him whether he would be kind enough on the Third Reading to make a short statement, similar to the statements he has made in writing to myself and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goddard. If he will do so it will save a good deal of time on that occasion and there will be no need to make lengthy speeches on the subject. I think that it is right that the House should know what is the result of the deliberations of the noble and learned Viscount on these various Amendments.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, if I may say so with respect, I think that the noble Lord has made a very fair point. As he was good enough to say, I wrote to him. I also wrote to my noble and learned friend Lord Goddard, and in that case the letter ran to four foolscap pages. I received a most courteous letter from my noble and learned friend Lord Goddard this morning. However, I shall endeavour to summarise this matter and place it before the House on the Third Reading.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.