HL Deb 19 April 1961 vol 230 cc596-9

2.40 p.m.

LORD SALTOUN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will consider the appointment of an officer who would solve difficult problems involving different branches of the welfare services and different areas and who would have authority to make administrative arrangements.]

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, the needs which these services meet are so varied that a single administration, even in the same area, could not be satisfactory. Officers of these services may be relied on to put individuals in touch with the particular branch they require. There are also organisations such as the Citizens' Advice Bureaux, which afford guidance. Her Majesty's Government consider that these are the right methods.

LORD SALTOUN

My Lords, may I venture to ask two supplementary questions separately? First, does the noble Lord remember a case—I choose the most illustrative that I can think of—some years ago when an Englishwoman with three children was deserted by her husband in Africa? Does the noble Lord remember that it was learned that she was coming home and that there would be housing trouble and trouble which would need help from the Assistance Board? Nothing could be arranged, and some months later this woman was discovered in London in shocking conditions—which was not very creditable to the Welfare State. Would the noble Lord be able to say what action should be taken by the person discovering the imminence of a case like that, and how it would be dealt with?

LORD NEWTON

My Lards, I am afraid that I do not have any personal recollection of this particular case, which sounds to me a most unusual one; and I do not think that I can really express any opinion of the merits of a particular case without looking into it.

LORD SALTOUN

My Lords, may I say that I quite agree with the noble Lord that such cases are not common but straddle areas and departments of the Welfare State. Does not the noble Lord consider that it might be a wise step to appoint some official, either in the Assistance Board or in the Ministry of Health, or some other Department, an official known to everybody, who would be able to take cognisance of such cases when they are reported due and arrange for them to be properly treated, and so save scandal?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, I am quite certain that any body who makes an inquiry of any Department of the Government about matters affecting that Department will get an answer.

LORD SALTOUN

My Lords, I am sorry to press the point, but the noble Lord has not understood me. My whole point is that these matters often affect more than one Department and cannot be dealt with without co-operation between the various branches of the Welfare State.

THE EARL OF LUCAN

My Lords, would the noble Lord agree that the Citizens' Advice Bureaux exist for precisely that purpose? We understand that they are doing their job very well.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Earl opposite for what he has said. That is perfectly true, and that is why I referred to the Citizens' Advice Bureaux in my original Answer. But to reply to my noble friend, so far as putting people on the right track is concerned and, if necessary seeing that various welfare services are linked together, that is commonly done by the officer or other person who is responsible for giving an individual service; and that person may be either a doctor or an officer of the appropriate local authority, or of the National Assistance Board.

LORD SALTOUN

My Lords, does the noble Lord really mean to say that if I become aware of a case such as I have described to him I am charged with the onerous duty of weeks of work trying to co-ordinate Government Departments? Surely it is much better that somebody with authority and knowledge should be charged with that duty.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, I should have thought that when one is faced with a problem of that kind the thing to do is to get in touch either with the Minister or with an officer in the Department of the Minister which is most concerned with the problem of the individual affected. I am bound to say that that is what I used to do when I was a Member of another place; and I found that my constituents were never reluctant to ask me to give that kind of advice and help. And I personally never had any difficulty in getting the right people to look into the problem.