HL Deb 09 November 1960 vol 226 cc400-2

2.52 p.m.

LORD GIFFORD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to institute a questionnaire to be completed by British subjects arriving by air in the United Kingdom, and, if so, whether they consider the information which will be obtained is of sufficient value to justify the considerable inconvenience to travellers and airline personnel.]

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (THE EARL OF DUNDEE)

My Lords, this matter is still under consideration. If an Order is made, a simple card would be introduced to be completed by British subjects travelling on the long air routes between the United Kingdom and countries outside Europe only. The information thus obtained would assist in our estimates of balance of payments credits and debits arising from the movement of tourists and migrants, and would provide information about emigrants from this country, in particular about the loss to this country through emigration of skilled people, and about immigration into this country of people from other parts of the Commonwealth. The Government regard this information as of considerable importance.

LORD OGMORE

Is it not possible, my Lords, to get this information from the airline companies, without subjecting passengers to the inconvenience of filling up further forms, of which there are already too many when taking passage by air?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, for the great bulk of travellers, of course, this will not apply at all. It will apply only to long-distance travellers to the Commonwealth. For about 90 per cent. of them—that is, ordinary travellers—all they have to do is to state their name and address. For the remaining 10 per cent.—that is, emigrants and immigrants —I have here speciments of the forms. The pink one, I believe, is for people going out and the white one for people coming in; and I do not think it would take more than 60 seconds to fill them up. But if an Order is made, both your Lordships' House and the other place will have an opportunity of measuring the usefulness of the information which would be obtained, and of comparing that with the inconvenience caused. I know very well that we sometimes collect a great deal of information which is of little use, but your Lordships will have an opportunity of measuring this.

BARONESS HORSBRUGH

My Lords, could the noble Earl say how many questions there are on the simple card?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

The pink card has seven questions, and I think the white card also has seven.

BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER

Could the noble Earl tell us whether there is any political significance in the fact that the outgoing card is pink and the incoming card is white?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

I think very probably.

LORD FERRIER

My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl a supplementary question—it is in two parts? Is it true that the Oversea Migration Board, of which I am a member, find the provision of these figures necessary to the proper execution of their tasks? And, if that is so, is it not the case that the need, for this information will increase as the use of air travel expands?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, I am delighted to find that somebody wants this information. The Government have considered the matter and have arrived at the view that it would be useful. As I have said, your Lordships will have a chance of measuring its usefulness against the slight inconvenience of distinguishing between whether one belongs to the "pink" people who are leaving this country or the "white" ones who are coming in.

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, if this system comes into operation, can the noble Earl say which Department will handle these cards, or whether it will be a question of creating a fresh Department?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, if it were a question of creating a fresh Department I think I should have had a little more to say about it. I think the usual Department which handles these questions is the Home Office; but, of course, the Commonwealth Relations Office is also concerned in the matter, because it is useful for that Department to have information of this kind.

LORD SHEPHERD

It is nothing to do with the income tax department?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

I am sure that the income tax department has a finger in everything.

LORD HASTINGS

My Lords, would it not be possible to limit the filling in of these cards to emigrants and immigrants, for whom they are designed, and to exclude the bona fide traveller going to and from various countries on his lawful occasions?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

I think that is not only possible but is what is being done. These cards are only for emigrants and immigrants.

LORD FERRIER

May I take the opportunity of drawing the attention of the noble Earl to the fact that, on the card, only three questions apply to the ordinary traveller, and the other four apply to emigrants only?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, I was not quite sure whether my noble friend considered himself an ordinary traveller.

LORD GIFFORD

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for his reply, and I very much hope that: before what will undoubtedly be a great nuisance to all travellers is put into force, the Government will consider whether there are not other and more simple ways of achieving the desired end.