HL Deb 01 November 1960 vol 226 cc6-24

The Queen's Speech reported by The LORD CHANCELLOR.

3.46 p.m.

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, I beg to move, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as followeth:

"Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Ternporal, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament."

My Lords, I am deeply sensible of the honour paid me by my noble friend the Leader of the House when he asked me to move the humble Address in reply to the gracious Speech. I have listened to other noble Lords on previous occasions with great admiration for the skill they have shown in this task, but I must admit that I have never envied them, because the task is a difficult one. It is perhaps slightly more difficult for me than for some others, 'because I have never yet made even a moderately adequate speech unless at the same time I have been allowed to be controversial, contradictory and argumentative. But I must not be any of those things to-day—and, indeed, I have no wish to be, having listened to the gracious Speech.

It was not at all clear why I was chosen until it was announced that the Mover of the humble Address in another place was the honourable Member for Halifax. Then it became quite obvious that it was the wish of Her Majesty's Government that both Houses of Parliament should fully understand that the most important part of the country is Yorkshire. I am particularly grateful for being given this honour on an occasion when Her Majesty has opened Parliament in person. We deeply regretted her absence on the last occasion, but we were delighted with the cause—and the cause is now with us in the person of our new young Prince, and this seems a suitable occasion to wish His Royal Highness Prince Andrew long life and happiness.

May I mention also another member of Her Majesty's family, Her Royal Highness Princess Alexandra? A year ago we were congratulating the Princess on the tremendous success of her Australian and Far Eastern tour. But that was something in the nature of a private visit. To-day we are filled with admiration of the skill and brilliance with which she represented Her Majesty the Queen at the Independence Celebrations in Nigeria. Every citizen of this country owes a deep debt of gratitude to the Princess, and what is interesting constitutionally is that the same debt of gratitude is owed by every citizen of Nigeria, because, from the very fact that Nigeria is now completely independent of the United Kingdom, our Queen and our Royal Family are more intimately than ever before Nigeria's Queen and Nigeria's Royal Family.

My Lords, may I now turn to the contents of the gracious Speech? On the last two occasions, the Movers of the humble Address have dealt almost entirely with overseas matters, and as the two Movers were my noble friends Lord Jellicoe and Lord Hastings that was hardly surprising, because they are experts in that field. I have decided, however, that the time has come to make a change. I am going to deal with the more humdrum matters of home affairs, and I have persuaded my noble friend the Duke of Atha, who will second the Address, to deal mainly with foreign and Commonwealth matters, and, in particular, with the more distant parts of the Commonwealth—such as Scotland. I am afraid that this change will mean that the oratory which your Lordships are accustomed to regard as entirely suitable to painting the canvas of the world picture must be cut down to a simpler style when dealing with the facts of day-to-day living; and in any case, I find the simpler style easier.

Your Lordships will perhaps not be altogether surprised if I start with that portion of the gracious Speech dealing with roads and road users, although in fact it comes last in the gracious Speech. In particular, I would refer to the proposed Bill to deal with road safety and road accidents. Up to date the only really completely successful contribution to reduce accidents has been the improvement of the roads system. If any noble Lord, or indeed anyone else, still does not believe that better roads mean fewer accidents, I would recommend him to go and see one of the five chief constables through whose territory M.1 passes. Whatever the yardstick of calculating accidents, whether it is accidents per mile or accidents per vehicle, the results on this road have been quite startling; and they have been almost as startling where major improvements have been made to existing roads.

I have sometimes doubted whether it was possible to do anything further in this direction by more legislation. Evidently I was wrong, because Her Majesty's Government have found a whole lot of other things which will help; and they are all coming up, apparently, in this Bill. When the Bill comes before Parliament it will be looked at with the most critical interest, and if it is going to make any contribution to this difficult problem it will be welcomed by everyone. I hope that when we come to discuss this Bill in Parliament we shall be able to do so with full knowledge, because, so far, the statistics published about road accidents are somewhat misleading: I do not mean that they are in any way inaccurate, but, like so many statistics, they tell only half the story.

I feel that while I am on the subject of road users I must mention the question of the underground garage in Hyde Park. We shall doubtless at some later date hear a good deal about its effect on tree roots and amenities, on the passage of prams and so on; but a large garage, particularly for day parking, is necessary somewhere in this part of London. But I think that, before a pick has gone into the ground or anything is built, we should remember that if the parking prices are right, the garage will be full, and if they are wrong, it will be empty.

I pass now to a different matter of transport. We are told that the Transport Commission is to be altered, both in its constitution and its functions. I hope that this is the beginning of a survey of all the nationalised industries. I am afraid that that remark may sound somewhat controversial, but it is not meant to be, and I do not think it need be. When the original nationalisation Acts were passed they differed widely, one from another, because the industries differed but they all had one thing in common—they were to some extent experimental. These Acts have been in force for some years now, and I think it is generally agreed, particularly by the people in the industries concerned, that in certain cases improvements might be made to their efficiency by amending Acts. What I am certain of is that if amendments are necessary the public and the people in the industries will be much happier if such alterations are made with the agreement of all political Parties.

The Home Office are evidently going to have a busy time, and I strongly suspect that they have been doing a little work during the Recess. Under this part of the gracious Speech the first matter mentioned is the police. As your Lordships know, various inquiries are at present going on, and I think in the nature of things it may take some little time before we get the full results. I hope, however, that it will be possible to take some interim steps to bring the terms of service of the police more up to date before we get the full report of the inquiries. The Home Office are also producing legislation dealing with penal treatment, young offenders, approved schools, clubs and licensing laws and so on. This may seem somewhat small beer when viewed against the drama of international events, but all these Bills deal with law and order, and some carping critics maintain that law and order have not been our strong points since the war. In any event, I think Her Majesty's Government are to be congratulated on tackling these complicat3d questions, and I can assure them That, so as to make the resulting Acts as efficient as they can be made, they will get plenty of advice from all sides of the House.

The question of fishery disputes with certain other countries is mentioned in the gracious Speech. Probably the less said the better, while negotiations are going on, but I feel certain that Her Majesty's Government will not allow the just rights of our fishermen to be whittled away just for the sake of getting a diplomatic agreement. The people of this country are rather apt in peace time to forget that we have fishermen; they seem to think that the fish arrive on their table by some sleight of hand of the fishmonger. But in war time we really appreciate these people, their hard life and the long, cold hours they spend at sea. In spite of this forgetfulness in peace time, I have not the slightest doubt that if Her Majesty's Government stand up for the rights of our fishermen in these negotiations they will have the full support of the whole public.

In the long-term, probably the most important matter mentioned in the gracious Speech is education. Some people think that education means merely getting their children through the 11-plus examination. But education of the kind we are talking about is from the cradle to the grave: it deals with young children, adolescents, university students, technical schools, teaching colleges, research, bricks, mortar, books, ink, pen and paper. If a. country in these modern times wishes to maintain its place in the world, education is of vital importance. It is therefore essential that every penny that can be scraped together for education should be collected; and it is equally important that when the money has been collected none of it should be wasted.

In that connection I would mention the fact that there is considerable public concern as to whether in the building of new schools the standard of what can only be called luxury is perhaps not too high. The argument goes that if the standard of luxury (I can think of no other word for it) was reduced, we should be able to build more new schools more quickly at the same cost. To-day I am not going to give my views on this matter, but it should be noted that this concern exists and it should not be ignored. If it is soundly based, then the matter should be put right; if it is not soundly based, then I think it wise to make some public statement.

Your Lordships will notice that I have not made any mention about the economy or the finance of the country. I defy anyone to discuss those subjects without being argumentative. I therefore intend to leave the arguments, contradictions and controversy to your Lordships when you are debating this matter later.

I have only one comment. The wording in the gracious Speech which your Lordships have heard read, is much the same as the wording in the gracious Speech at the beginning of the last Session. In the debate after the Motion had been moved, there 'were certain complaints that, although the wording was fairly exact as to the intentions of the Government, there was no mention of how those intentions would be carried out. I remember the criticisms that were made, but I believe the wording to be just as it should be. Anything more precise at the beginning of the Session—there are so many matters outside our control which affect our economy—might lead to considerable misunderstanding later on. If there is one lesson we have learnt since the, war, it is that economic policy must be flexible and not rigid.

I have dealt with only some of the matters mentioned in the gracious Speech, but I think it is clear that most of the legislation that is coming up will be highly controversial. It seems to me that much of it will be the type of controversy that is rather welcomed by your Lordships, because it will probably not be along strictly Party lines. There is obviously a lot of hard work ahead of us. I sometimes hope that if we continue to work as hard as we have in the past, and as hard as we are evidently going to work this Session, the time may come, perhaps during the lifetime of the younger Members of the House, when every law on the Statute Book will be perfect of its kind and no new legislation will be necessary. It is in that fervent hope that I beg to move.

Moved, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as followeth: Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament."—(Lord Dement.)

4.3 p.m.

THE DUKE OF ATHOLL

My Lords, I rise to second the Motion of my noble friend Lord Derwent. As well as its being a great honour to be chosen to second the humble Address, besides being rather a nervous strain, I find it also in a way—in fact, in many ways—a very personal pleasure, and I should like to thank my noble friend the Leader of the House for giving me this opportunity. Like all proposers and seconders of this Motion, I wondered why he had chosen me. It seemed very strange. And then I remembered that there are only sixteen people elected to your Lordships' House, and I thought perhaps my noble Leader wished to begin what I hope will be his long and fruitful reign of office with a touch of democracy not often seen in your Lordships' House. However, I was speedily disillusioned by various members of my family who, when they heard the news, thought it must have been inspired by the passing last Session of the Betting and Gaming Act, and that he must have used the proverbial pin. I do not know which it was, but I should like to thank him very much, and I only hope I can justify his confidence.

I am sure your Lordships will all agree that my noble friend has dealt most brilliantly, in a remarkably short time, with Her Majesty's Government's intentions on what I might describe as the home front, in so far as they refer to England and Wales. In order to justify partly my dress and partly my method of entering your Lordships' House, I thought I should say just a little about Scotland before I started on the other 98 per cent. of the world which my noble friend has so kindly left me. This gives me plenty of scope, but, I fully realise, lays me open to a charge of being somewhat superficial. However, having re-read the strictures of the noble Lord, Lord Rea, one year ago to-day on this particular subject, I am sure that there are at least two of us in this House who would rather that I was short and superficial than long and tedious.

Having shown there is this point of difference in my presence here, I am going to start with Scotland. The gracious Speech makes mention of the various visits which Her Majesty the Queen and His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh are going to make to various parts of the Commonwealth next year. It did not mention, however, the extremely successful and much appreciated visit which was made to the Shetland and Orkney Islands in August of this year. While the visits to more distant parts of Her Majesty's far flung Dominions obviously attract much more publicity and much more attention, to the people concerned the visits to the more remote parts of this Kingdom are equally valuable. It was the first time for 500 years that a reigning Monarch has visited the Shetland Islands, and I know that the people there appreciated this visit enormously. I personally think that visits to those parts of our Island are just as important as visits to other parts of the Commonwealth.

To turn to more mundane matters, I was pleased to see that the gracious Speech foreshadowed some amendment of the Crofters (Scotland) Act. Crofters are, I think, a social necessity but an economic problem. The crofters do not have an easy time—in fact, I think that if any of your Lordships tried to make a living off twelve acres in the West of Scotland, which is somewhere near the average amount of land a crofter has, you would find it quite impossible. They mostly have some other outside occupation; nevertheless, the chances of employment are extremely limited in the West of Scotland, and were it not for the crofters it would become about as populated as the Sahara Desert. This, I aim sure your Lordships will all agree, is undesirable. Therefore, the Crofters' Commission have a difficult task. I sincerely hope that the intended legislation will make their task easier and will take away the stigma which is rather being attached to them at the present time when they turn out absentee crofters. Various newspaper articles have, I think, pointed out that 173 crofters have been turned out and their crofts attached to neighbouring ones. I have great confidence in the Crofters' Commission, and feel sure that the present trend must be a good one. I hope matters may be made easier for them by the proposed legislation.

Another item in the gracious Speech which will give enormous pleasure in Scotland is the expressed intention to give financial assistance towards the replacement of the "Queen Mary". The whole of Scotland will hope that the contract will go to the Clyde, where unemployment is still above the national average, and where the people have shown in the past that they are well capable of building a ship with such prestige value.

Two measures I was most disappointed to hear were not going to apply to Scotland were those to check abuses by registered clubs and to reform the licensing laws. I feel that in these particular cases the law should be brought into line in both countries, and I think there is a danger that if registered clubs are checked in this country only they may start springing up in Scotland in profusion. I cannot quite understand either why the proposed changes in licensing laws should not be extended to Scotland. Much as I admire nearly all things Scottish, I would not include the licensing laws among them, especially the Act relating to bona fide travellers on Sundays, which seems to me a positive encouragement to drunken driving. It makes it impossible for a man to get a drink in his home village; and, as there is virtually no public transport in the Highlands of Scotland on a Sunday, it means that he has to take a car out, drive the appropriate three miles to the next-door village, have his drinks and then drive home. I should have thought that that was a law that could easily have been altered.

I would now turn my attention to wider horizons, but before doing so I hope it will not be out of order for me to offer my congratulations to our last Leader on his appointment to his new office. I was not able to be here when his appointment was announced, so I was not able at the time to add my voice to those expressing pleasure at it.

Undoubtedly, the most important event in the coming year will be the Presidential election in the United States. The gracious Speech reiterates our connections with that country, and for this reason alone I think we shall watch their election with great interest. While I would not risk laying myself open to a charge of trying to influence home events in another country, or flatter myself that I could do so, by giving my views on their election, I am sure we all hope it will result in a strong and wise Administration which will, like us, continue to give its full support to N.A.T.O. and other international organisations which help to 'promote peace.

Also, while I am dealing with the Western hemisphere I feel it would be difficult not to say a word at this moment about Cuba. I am sure all your Lordships would regret it if Cuba fell under Russian influence, and for this reason I feel that we must support everything the Americans do in regard to that country. They are much nearer Cuba than we are and they know much more about it, and even though on occasions we cannot quite understand what they are up to, we ought to try to put our own feelings aside and support their lead.

Yesterday was, I believe, the second anniversary of the Geneva Conference on the Discontinuance of Nuclear Weapon Tests. Thanks to some extremely able negotiators, to a more flexible attitude on the part of the Governments concerned than is sometimes shown in such conferences, and to dogged perseverance, this Conference is progressing, admittedly somewhat slowly, towards an answer. Although I am sure everyone hopes that it will be a complete answer, I personally think that this is by no means a certainty. In this case, however, almost anything is better than nothing, and we certainly seem now to have 'progressed beyond the "almost anything" point.

The other problem in Europe which is likely to be of major importance in the forthcoming year is that of the relation between the Six and the Seven. The gracious Speech indicates that we may hope for a significant reduction in trade barriers and I am sure all will echo this desire. At the same time there seems to be an attitude in this country which expects other countries to do all the giving and us to sit back and collect. A minority will perhaps have to suffer to a small extent for the good of the majority, so that in the long run we may all benefit.

For the rest of my time I should like to concentrate on the Commonwealth. Although my noble friend, Lord Derwent, has mentioned the visit of Her Royal Highness Princess Alexandra to Nigeria. I also should like to say a little about it because I think it was a most remarkable performance, and she gave Nigeria a wonderful start on the road of independence. She captured the hearts not only of all Nigerians but of all Africans. This visit seems to have been as outstanding a success as her tour of Australia, and higher praise than that, in my opinion, it is impossible to bestow. About Nigeria itself there is little I can say except to congratulate her on her fine start in her new role and wish her every success in the future.

Next year, Sierra Leone becomes an independent member of the Commonwealth and I am sure we all wish her the same fine start and hope she will continue equally happily. As we are reminded in the gracious Speech, next year the Constitution of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland comes up for review. While it would be presumptuous of me to try to anticipate this review, I feel there is a very real danger that Rhodesia may one day go the same way as South Africa unless the newspapers, over here particularly, try to give both sides of the case. At the moment too much is reported of the Nyasaland Africans' contribution to the Rhodesias, and virtually nothing about the Rhodesias' contribution to the Nyasaland Africans' well-being and prosperity, which in total, I believe, amounts to £3 million a year. Economically, federation must be the answer, and while we must respect the Nyasas for their desire to be poor but free, our duty as a Mother Country is to see that our dependants are not only politically but also financially able to stand on their own feet when the time to do so arrives.

Much the same criteria can be applied to East Africa. The example of the Congo is still fresh in our minds—a country rushed into self-government before it was ready. Economically it was sound, but politically and judicially it was not; yet, swayed by outside opinion, the Belgians granted it independence. It has always been our policy to make sure before we move, and I hope that we shall not deviate from this policy in our treatment of Kenya and Uganda. We must be certain, before we take any further steps, that the African population is ready, both socially and economically; only when vie are sure of this will it be right for us to allow them to advance further. A premature move and we lose the confidence of the African not only in East Africa, but also in all our Colonies, where they have trust in our ability to lead them forward to a peaceful and prosperous independence and self government.

My Lords, I am sure it gave great pleasure to all noble Lords to hear that the Government intend to introduce legislation to help the Governments of India and Pakistan financially so that they may undertake works of public importance in the Indus River Basin. Such combined efforts can lead only to greater co-operation and friendship between these two very large nations, both members of the Commonwealth in Central Asia. One thing I should like to say about it is that I hope that the publicity given to this assistance will be as great and as well directed as if it had come from Soviet Russia. Whilst in private life it is usually desirable not to publicise one's generosity, it is unfortunate that we carry this maxim to a national and even international level, and therefore the Western world does not get due credit (except from the immediate beneficiaries) for the vast amount of the aid which it contributes to less fortunate countries each year.

My Lords, none of the programme outlined in the gracious Speech would be possible without the personal touch, and while this is to a certain extent supplied by Her Majesty's Ministers, in the final count the Commonwealth would lose its raison d'être were it not for the gracious presence of Her Majesty at the head of it. On her devolves not only the normal responsibilities of being a wife and mother, not only the duties of being Head of State of this country, but also those of being Head of a vast Commonwealth. Each year the Queen undertakes journeys which, while no doubt enjoyable, would daunt many lesser people. Next year is no exception, and she is to undertake two journeys of a major nature—one to India, Pakistan and Nepal, and one to Africa.

My Lords, it is too seldom that we, as ordinary humble citizens, get the chance to thank Her Majesty the Queen and her Family for all they do for us. For this reason, if for no other, it has given me enormous pleasure to speak to-day. I beg to thank Her Majesty for her gracious Speech and to second the Motion for an humble Address.

4.21 p.m.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, it is always a great pleasure for the Leader of the Opposition, of whatever Party it may be, to follow the Mover and Seconder of the Address. We do it usually in this House by moving the adjournment of the debate so that we can confine our remarks to-day only to the personal desirability of the conclusion of this afternoon's business. On many occasions, all of them very happy, in recent years we have had certain things upon which we could pick and comment. We had a year in which there were two Guardsmen speaking from the other side. We had a year in which, I think, there were two Eton and Oxford men speaking. In other cases there have been two speakers both at least from the one public school, if not from the same university. To-day, we have an almost entirely new combination in the selections by the Government of the Mover and the Seconder of the humble Address, and I must say that it has been exceedingly pleasant.

May I say, as one who, although not a Yorkshireman, once represented a Yorkshire constituency for 24 years, how thoroughly I agree at least with the point of the sentiment of the Mover, the noble Lord, Lord Derwent. May I say to him that when, at the outset of his speech, he referred slightly to controversy, I was really licking my lips in delight, and with a forward-looking appetite in regard to the controversies we were going to get in his speech as Mover of the humble Address. We have in the person of Lord Derwent one of the most popular personalities in the House of Lords. He is one of the most popular Members because he is popular not only on one side. He is very popular on this side of the House, because, although we frequently disagree with him in his controversialities, we have a feeling that there is an independence in his criticism. Whether we agree with that independent criticism or not, it brings a kind of freshness of life to an Opposition which as to this side of the House, for the time being at any rate, seems always to be limited in its ranks, and the kind of criticism that we get from time to time from the more independent members of the Government Party is always refreshing to the Opposition.

May I say that I think he has performed his task this afternoon with exceeding skill, because although he has hinted at controversy, all the time he has kept well within the bounds of tradition in the character of the speech which has to be delivered by the Mover of the humble Address. I regard that as not only pleasant but most admirable on such an occasion as this. The noble Lord was educated at Charterhouse. I suppose that Eton and, especially in the political sense, Winchester and Harrow and other places, would not have put Charterhouse on the same status as themselves. But I must say that in all the individual friendships that one makes, even in the sort of political life I have had, with those who come into politics, I have met many people who have started at Charterhouse, and indeed followed the noble Lord to Sandhurst, and who have rendered great service not only in the military forces of the country but also in the public life of the country. We congratulate the noble Lord most heartily upon the honour which has been bestowed upon him by his Leader, and I am sure that the House will feel that he has performed his task really well.

I turn now to the Seconder of the humble Address. Noble Dukes seem to be in the news just now. There seems to be a sort of hint, even in the gracious Speech, that there may be something in this sudden return to publicity of Dukes in political life. Whether the new addition of a noble Duke to the ranks of the Ministers in this House is to have any effect upon the proposed legislation with regard to a levy on horseracing, I am not quite sure. On the other hand, the comparative elevation of the noble Duke, who has so competently addressed us this afternoon as Seconder, at so early an age in life, would encourage us to believe that there is thought of a future for him in the political life of the nation. I hope it may be so.

I am not sure, but am told (he will correct me if I am wrong) that he appears in the proper Scottish dress. Shall I say that of the Atholl Clan? Is that right? I understand that it is not the Clan. I felt that it could not be right. At least I believe it is the sort of uniform that stems from the ancient private armies. Am I right? God bless us! What a blessing it is that this head of a private army is so loyal in his devotion! It is really the perfect combination. I have always been in favour, ever since the first year of the last war, of compulsory National Service. But of course if every private army could always be kept in the state of the loyal devotion and dedication of the noble Duke, then perhaps we might do away with National Service.

I hope that what I have said about a possible political future for the noble Duke may be true, because it is undoubted that he has a tremendous history in his family. I believe that he has succeeded to thirteen Scottish titles. He has escaped the possibility of an unlucky number in the future by having now been elected a Representative Peer, thus making his total one of fourteen titles. It seems to me that he ought to have every encouragement from that, because surely in that long succession of titles there could not be anything but a great deal of loyal and able service to the Crown and to the State.

I hope that the illustrious services of the noble Lady of his family, Dame Katharine Marjory, Duchess of Atholl, will be always in his memory—I am sure it will be—as he addresses your Lordships on matters of moment, or the political and needful life of the nation. There are many Members of your Lordships' House who served for fifteen years With the late Duchess in another place. She was created a Dame for public and social services five years before she entered Parliament. Thereafter, she not only gave evidence of her education, her culture and her public duty, but became a passionate advocate of freedom and of all movements connected with liberty; and almost until the day of her death She remained Chairman of the British League for European Freedom. I seem to call. to mind (and I hope I have not made a mistake) that the late Duchess was actually present three years ago when the noble Duke made his maiden speech; and I thought it a very great occasion. We thank the noble Duke very much for the contribution he has made this afternoon, and we hope that he will continue in the good work and fallow a great and noble example. I beg to move the adjournment of the debate.

Moved, That the debate be now adjourned.—(Viscount Alexander of Hillsborough.)

4.30 p.m.

LORD REA

My Lords, a year ago we had occasion as we have to-day, to congratulate the Mover and Seconder of the humble Address upon expressing so well our deep care for the well-being of our Queen which, as the noble Lord, Lord Derwent, has reminded the House, was at that time connected with a happy family event in the then near future. To-day, with undiminished loyalty and respectful affection, we feel the same things and send the same message to Her Majesty, remembering in our minds, with heartfelt relief, that she has escaped from grave personal peril in the immediate past.

It is, of course, a privilege to move or to second the Motion for an humble Address, but it is also a privilege to move and support the Motion for the adjournment of the debate, because an opportunity there arises to refer to the two important speeches which initiate the rolling of the oratorical stone which—irrespective of any moss it may gather—rotates relentlessly in this Chamber for another twelve months. Whether we adjourn the debate now because the speeches to which we have just listened have struck us dumb, or for some other reason, is not quite clear; but any degree of dumbness which I feel coming over me, beyond my normal degree of aphasia, is due to the excellence of, and my admiration for the two speeches we have heard. To make a maiden speech in your Lordships' House on such an occasion as this would, of course, be an ordeal to which few Leaders—possibly no Leaders—would be likely to submit a hopeful supporter. But I have no doubt that such an ordeal would not have daunted the noble Lord, Lord Derwent, nurtured in the bracing air of Scarborough, whose motto is Nunquanz non paratus; nor indeed, the noble Duke whose forbears have for so many generations taken an illustrious and honourable part in the government of the British peoples. Indeed, in the impressive record of the noble Duke's family and of their persevering devotion to duty, my own copy of Burke's Peerage informs me (no doubt through a misprint) that the first member of the Murray family to be ennobled was born in the year 1500 and was apparently elevated to the peerage for his good work at the remarkable age of 104. I just mention that to show that the noble Duke has much to look forward to; and we hope that his political life will be very long but not tedious.

My Lords, these were not maiden speeches. Neither the noble Lord, Lord Derwent, nor the noble Duke is pleasing our ears for the first time; and any sympathy which we may have been feeling for them in their honourable and very responsible task to-day exists because each of them has already set himself such a high standard of speaking with knowledge and clarity in your Lordships' House that it would be very difficult for them to equal or surpass that. I am sure your Lordships will agree with me that both speakers have, on an advanced level, emerged from this stringent viva voce with an Alpha Plus; and in verbal relation perhaps to localities or subjects on which each is known to us to be an expert. Transports of delight and the Distillation of the Spirit Politic have, not inappropriately, been the order of the day. The graceful dexterity with which both protagonists have to-day drawn a bead from the Government Benches and let fly a political shot, scoring a bull without even denting the controversial target, confirms our established confidence that whenever either of them rises we are in for a time of great pleasure. It is therefore with sincere congratulations to both that I beg to support the Motion.

4.35 p.m.

THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE (VISCOUNT HAILSHAM)

My Lords, my part at this stage of the afternoon's proceedings is to support the Motion for the adjournment and to take the opportunity to thank my two noble friends for the service they have done to the House by moving and seconding so well the Motion for the humble Address; and the noble Lords the Leaders of the Opposition and of the Liberal Party for the very happy way in which they have already congratulated my two noble friends. This is done on the Motion for adjournment, I am sorry to say, for less noble reasons than the noble Lord the Leader of the Liberal Party has suggested. We all want a second speech later in the debate and that is why our ancestors have devised this method.

This task of moving and seconding the Motion for the humble Address, as my noble friend Lord Derwent has said, is a very difficult one, but we are sometimes apt to forget that because it is done so well. To be confronted with what is essentially a political document covering—as it must necessarily do—the whole field of policy and embodying the programme of a Party Government for a year, and to deal with it delightfully, meaningfully (if I may borrow an American word) and without, as the noble Lord, Lord Rea, put it, "denting the target of controversy" is no mean achievement. I think your Lordships feel that it has been done very well indeed on this occasion.

Though the noble Lord, Lord Derwent, was not selected for this reason, it gave me particular pleasure to see a Green Jacket on the back of the noble Lord who proposed the Motion. We belong to sister regiments—although I suppose we should no longer call them "sisters", since 'they have been "married". I suppose that neither sister wished to be married, but if a marriage had to take place to anyone then I know they are very happy that it took place 'between these two partners.

The noble Duke, too, appears as the Commander of a private army—as the noble Viscount reminded us, the only private army which is still permitted, that is to say, outside the Congo. As the noble Viscount told us, that is a great tribute to the loyalty of the noble Duke and his ancestors to the Crown. Nobody else can be trusted to that extent. I should like, and I am sure the whole House would like, to endorse what the Mover and Seconder said about Her Majesty and the Royal Family and, in particular, about Her Royal Highness Princess Alexandra and the success of her visit to Nigeria. As the noble Duke reminded us, we have too few opportunities of expressing our gratitude, and this is one of them. I am so glad that it was taken.

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Derwent, is an old hand in this House, and we knew, of course, that he would discharge his task with distinction; and we even guessed that he might refer fairly early on in his remarks to road traffic. The noble Duke, who, if he will allow me to say so, is a somewhat younger man, has already been one of the most regular of the younger Peers in attendance in your Lordships' House; and I should like to tell him that we very much appreciate not merely his contributions, which are always good, but also the trouble that he takes to perform and discharge his duties as a Representative Peer for Scotland.

I do not think it would be seemly for me to take your Lordships' time longer, except once more to thank the noble Mover and Seconder, the noble Viscount the Leader of the Opposition and the noble Lord, Lord Rea, for the very kind way in which they have congratulated my two noble friends.

On Question, Motion agreed to, and debate adjourned accordingly until to-morrow.