HL Deb 10 March 1960 vol 221 cc991-3
LORD BIRDWOOD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what measures they have taken to ensure that, in the process of trade operations between the United Kingdom and countries within the Soviet orbit, no goods shall be supplied which could be used for military purposes.]

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (THE EARL OF DUNDEE)

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government participate in international arrangements to restrict exports of strategic commodities to countries in the Soviet orbit. The commodities which are subject to security export controls include weapons of war, atomic energy materials and industrial goods possessing a strategic importance.

LORD BIRDWOOD

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl very much for his Answer. I wonder whether he could answer this supplementary question. Are jet aeroplanes regarded as peaceful or perhaps as having a warlike potential; and, if so, is it true that the English Electric Company have negotiated the sale of certain electric components which are essential in the construction of jet aeroplanes?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, there are many types of civilian airborne equipment which are not subject to embargo. The East German order for an electrical generating system for civilian aircraft relates to a type of equipment used on civilian aircraft in the West. It is not embargoed and there is no objection to the export of English Electric's system of this type to East Germany.

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether he is aware that the question of strategic control so far as the Eastern bloc is concerned has been threshed out time and again in this House, and on July 30, 1958, the noble Earl, Lord Gosford, answering me [OFFICIAL REPORT, Vol. 211, col. 481] said that a substantial relaxation of the embargo list had been achieved but also that Her Majesty's Government's objective of confining the list to items of real strategic significance has been in great measure achieved. May I further ask him whether he remembers that on December 17, 1958, he himself agreed that there was a more flexible approach in this matter and that the Government were anxious to give licences in any cases where they could do so, subject to the undertaking on the general question of strategic control?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, I am most grateful for the noble Viscount's information.

LORD BIRDWOOD

My Lords, may I ask one further question? Would the Government agree that it is very necessary to be equally vigilant in the passing of potentially strategic goods to a potential enemy as it is to be vigilant in the case of the ability of a potential ally to manufacture weapons of defence?

VISCOUNT ELIBANK

My Lords, can the noble Earl give the House an assurance that there is going to be no change in the present attitude of flexibility towards this question on the part of Her Majesty's Government?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, I think that that is another question. The Question asked about the policy which is being applied now.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, has the noble Earl observed that he has not answered the noble Lord's Question at all? In asking about strategic material he asked about supplies which could be used for military purposes. Is it not the fact that £3½ million worth of copper, for example, was sent in the first half of the year 1959 to Russia?

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, I suppose that tongs and pokers could be used for hitting people over the head, but that is not the main purpose of them. We must exercise common sense.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

I am heartily in support of what the noble Earl says, but I am pointing out that the search by the noble Lord, Lord Birdwood, to prevent export of anything that can be used for military purposes is absurd.