§ 2.36 p.m.
§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL AND MINISTER FOR SCIENCE (VISCOUNT HAILSHAM)My Lords, with the permission of the House, I should like to make a statement on the investigations which have been recently going on into portable oil heaters. A report by the Joint Fire Research Organisation of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research and the Fire Offices' Committee on the effect of draughts on the burning of portable drip-feed radiant oil heaters is being published this afternoon. Copies have been placed in the Printed Paper Office. The main conclusion is that these heaters are safe in a house with the outer doors and windows closed, but that all the heaters of this type tested are capable of starting a fire very quickly if exposed to a draught such as can be caused by an open outer door. Copies of the report have been sent to the Government Departments concerned and to the manufacturers, and 778 immediate consultations will be undertaken with a view to the adoption of a safe standard of performance for the future and of any other measures that may be found desirable and practicable. Meanwhile, it is important that portable oil heaters of the drip-feed radiant type should not be used unless it can be ensured that they are not exposed to a draught.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am sure we are all much obliged to the noble and learned Viscount for the statement he has just made, and we shall agree that the Industrial Research Department has done a very good job on this matter. It seems a pity that their attention could not have been drawn earlier by other Departments to this very grave danger. May I ask the noble and learned Viscount whether his reference to any other steps which may need to be taken apart from the one he specifies means that there is a fear that the present Government machinery is not sufficient, or perhaps is non-existent, to deal 'with the protection of the public in this matter, and that special measures may be required? If that is the case, I hope notice will be taken. I should like to know whether, in such a case, any measures taken will be a matter for the Home Office or the Board of Trade—which Department?
LORD REAMy Lords, before the noble and learned Viscount replies, may I thank him for the statement and congratulate him on the apparent rapid action which is being taken as a result of this report? I think we may also congratulate him on the use he is making of his leisure by re-reading StrowwelPeter and the moral story of Harriet and the Matches.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I should like to thank both noble Lords for what they have said. In answer to the noble Viscount, the Leader of the Opposition, The position, I think, is somewhat of this kind: there are about 10 million portable oil heaters in use at the moment, of which 3 million at least correspond to the description of the heater which has been the subject of these tests. To begin with, it must depend upon the public whether they heed the warning with regard to those. 779 Secondly, clearly the British Standard specification needs looking at in the light of what I have just said, and that is already in hand; but it does not, of course, rest with the Government to prescribe the terms of that specification. Thirdly, the manufacturers have to be consulted, both with regard to the introduction of an improved type for the future and with regard to the provision of facilities for the modification of the 3 million existing heaters, because I should imagine that a good many people who have these heaters will want them modified. Lastly, there is the question whether sales of heaters which are dangerous could be prohibited. As I understand the matter—the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack will no doubt tell me if I am wrong—there is no power to prohibit them without legislation, and clearly one would have to consult with all those concerned both as to whether such legislation was necessary and on what form it should take. I think I am right in saying that as the law stands at, the moment there is no power to prohibit the sale of heaters which happen to be dangerous in this way. I think I have now covered the various aspects of the matter as they occur to me.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am very much obliged. We must wait and see on the points still to be considered. But there has been a large number of fires of this kind, and it is clear from my information from the trade side that the public have been withholding purchases for the last three or four months to such an extent as to cause quite a shock to the hardware trade. If some clear guidance could be given to the public in general, it might be helpful. Therefore the suggestion that the noble and learned Viscount has kindly made—that the inquiries will include what steps should be taken to alter the existing stoves as well as looking at the other question—is very much to be welcomed. It would be a good thing for business in general if it were very clearly understood by the public which oil stoves can still be sold with safety.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, I quite agree with that. It has. I think, been the case that since the inquest on a tragic fire at Ware some little time ago, 780 at which Mr. Lawson of the Fire Research Station gave evidence, there has been a very considerable reduction, and one would think a very prudent reduction, in the sale of apparatus of this kind. Parallel with this statement in your Lordships' House, the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research are making a somewhat fuller statement through the Press about the steps which a householder can prudently take if he happens to possess apparatus of this kind. I am sure we are all grateful to the noble Viscount for what he has said.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I do not want to extend what one might call this small debate, but I am rather frightened at the thought of 3 million people with this particular type of stove in their houses. We all know that not everyone reads debates in your Lordships' House, or even the newspapers which would give this information. I was wondering whether the noble Viscount could seek the co-operation of the local authorities, and even the oil companies, to see that a warning is brought into these homes about the dangers of these stoves, and what precautions can be taken to prevent some of these terrible fires.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords. I entirely agree with the noble Lord about the necessity of making it plain that these stoves are apt to be dangerous if exposed to a draught. It is rather for that reason that we have taken the somewhat unusual course that we have. The Department of Scientific and Industrial Research has a Press Office. I hope that they will do what they can with the Press and with the broadcasting authorities to see that this is generally known. I shall certainly hear in mind what the noble Lord said about the local authorities.
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords. I think that this time we have got in first.