REPORT OF THE PIPPARD COMMITTEE (Hansard, 19 July 1960)

§ LORD MACPHERSON OF DRUMOCHTER
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (EARL WALDEGRAVE)
My Lords, I understand that the Committee are working now on a draft of their Report, which they are anxious to complete as soon as possible. But I cannot yet say when it will be published.

§ LORD MACPHERSON OF DRUMOCHTER
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the Pippard Committee was appointed by my noble friend, Lord Dalton, when he was the Minister concerned, in another place on April 4, 1951—over nine years ago. Probably this is a record for departmental delay in matters of this sort. Is the noble Earl aware that the whole country is aroused and disturbed about the polluted condition of our rivers, estuaries and coasts and that public authorities are anxious to make a new attack on this problem? Is he further aware that although this inquiry relates to the River Thames, and the Port of London Authority and the London County Council are primarily responsible, other pollution and sewage authorities up and down the country are 456 awaiting this publication for their guidance before completing their own plans for dealing with the treatment of effluent and sewage disposal? The matter is now of great urgency, and I hope there will be no further delay in the publication of the Report.

§ LORD DALTON
My Lords, as the noble Lord has recalled one of the events of my past life, may I ask whether the Government will not make some effort, for the honour of the Conservative Party, to stimulate the early production of the Report of a Committee appointed in an earlier régime?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, I hope and believe that the honour of the Conservative Party is quite intact in this matter. The point is that this is a matter of considerable difficulty. The research into this problem is being carried out under the direction of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research. It has proved extremely difficult and has taken a very long time; I admit that it is nine years since the committee was set up. But the difficulty really is whether this Committee has yet sufficient evidence to make a Report. It thinks that it has come to a time when there is evidence at least for an Interim Report, and, as I said, there is a draft Report in preparation. I should like to answer one of the supplementaries, as it were, of the noble Lord, Lord Macpherson of Drumochter. Work is not being held up pending this Report. I am advised that no work has been held up to await the Report. For instance, the London County Council Northern and Southern outfall works improvements have been put in hand at a cost of about £20 million.

§ LORD MACPHERSON OF DRUMOCHTER
My Lords, I can assure the noble Earl that work is being held up in river boards, and even in the Port of London Authority, because it is hoped that this Report will be the textbook on the treatment of sewage and effluent. Before spending large sums of money the authorities want to know they are on the right lines. I beg the noble Earl to hurry it up by every means in his power.

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, I appreciate the urgency of this matter. Of course, it can be said that research in this kind of matter is never finished; 457 there is always fresh evidence being brought before the Committee. It is for the Committee to decide, and it is an extremely difficult decision, when they have got enough data on which to base reasonable recommendations. As the noble Lord said, if this is going to be taken (I think he used the word) as a "textbook" on the subject, to apply to the whole country, it is of the greatest Importance that the evidence should really be complete before the Report is produced. We can say that the Chairman is most anxious to produce the Report as soon as possible and a draft Report is in existence.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBROUGH
My Lords, do I understand from the noble Earl that in fact work by local authorities is not being held up? If that is so, what technical advice exactly is being given to local authorities on this matter?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My information is that from Teddington to Southend on the River Thames a considerable number of sewage schemes have been put in hand and completed since 1951, and my advice is that work is not being help up purely on the basis of waiting for this Report.

§ LORD MACPHERSON OF DRUMOCHTER
My Lords, is the Report now finished?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, I think I was perfectly clear in my first Answer. There is a draft Report under consideration at the present moment. I cannot tell how much redrafting there will be, but there is a draft Report in existence at this moment.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
This is really very unsatisfactory indeed. This has been going on for nine years. The Minister says that work is going on on these sewage schemes. Where is the Government technical advice coming from if this Committee has not been able to obtain sufficient evidence to make its Report? What advice is being given by the Government to local authorities in each of these areas?

EARL WALDEGRAVE
My Lords, I would assume, and surely the noble Viscount who leads the Opposition would agree, that though we are all 458 looking forward with the greatest possible interest Ito the Report that the Pippard Committee will produce, my right honourable friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government is not, entirely bereft of technical advice in his Department at any time. He has certainly got advisers at the moment who can give advice to local authorities before this Report finally comes forward.

LORD SALTOUN
My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether it is not the case that in the past 30 years, during which I have lived on the banks of the Thames, the condition of the water that flows by my house has immensely improved?