PRIVATE BILL STANDING ORDERS

HL Deb 19 July 1960 vol 225 cc460-72

2.47 p.m.

THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (LORD MERTHYR)

My Lords, I beg to move the Motion which stands in my name. In doing so, I should like first of all to take the opportunity—I am sure the House will join with me in this—of thanking the Joint Committee on the Promotion of Private Bills which sat for seventeen days last year, and in particular the Chairman, the noble Marquess, Lord Reading, and other Members of your Lordships' House who sat on that Committee, for their exacting and detailed work and for the time they devoted to its deliberations, for it is to implement in part this Committee's recommendations that I have put this Motion on the Order Paper to-day.

The Committee's Report contains three paragraphs recommending Amendments to the Private Bills Standing Orders. These are Nos. 23, 26 and 29; and the Amendments that I now move are designed to implement, as far as has been found practicable, these recommendations. There will in due course be other Amendments consequential upon those which I am asking the House to approve this afternoon. These Amendments are concerned with some of the more detailed aspects of Private Bill procedure, and in view of the form they take, in that they are largely additions to existing Standing Orders and not merely insertions, I did not consider it practicable in this instance to follow the suggestion made, by the noble Lord, Lord Silkin, to print in special type those parts of the Order which are new. I hope, however, that your Lordships will find the Amendments are set out sufficiently clearly.

The Amendments to Standing Order 1 are supplemental or consequential to those that follow. The Amendments to Standing Order 4 and the new Standing Order 4A, taken together, carry out, subject to modifications, paragraph 26 of the Report of the Select Committee. They do not give effect to that part of paragraph 26 which requires Bills to be deposited with parish councils and parish meetings, but instead require deposit at an office in the rural district in which the parish is situated. Nor do they insist that the notice must be inserted in a newspaper published, as distinct from circulating, in the locality. Subject to these modifications, paragraph 26, except for its last two sentences, is implemented by the new Standing Orders 4A and 10.

The new Standing Order 124A implements, in part, paragraph 23 of the Report. It does not do so wholly, because it is, in my judgment, imperative to preserve the ability of a county council to confer a power upon a district council against the wishes of that council, as was done, for example, in the Kent Water Act, 1955. Paragraph 29 of the Report is implemented by the new Standing Orders 1 (a), 4A and 10 (2) (a).

The Committee came to some other conclusions, but these, in my opinion, have wider application than those recommendations dealing with the Standing Orders which we are considering to-day. In particular, paragraph 20 of the Report deals with the joint promotion of Private Bills by two or more district councils in the same county; and the implementation of the recommendations it contains for an alteration in the practice of the House ought not, in my view, to be accomplished by an Amendment to Standing Orders such as I am moving to-day. I beg to move the Motion standing in my name.

Moved, That the following Amendments be made to the Standing Orders relative to Private Bills, etc.—

Standing Order 1, page 11, line 7, leave out ("4, 10.")

Standing Order 1, page 11, line 9, at end insert ("the term 'county district' means a non-county borough, an urban district or a rural district")

Standing Order 1, page 11, line 17, at end insert ("the term 'functions' includes powers and duties")

Standing Order 1, page 11, leave out lines 20 to 31 and insert—

("the term local authority' means any of the following:—

1. (a)the council of a county,
2. (b)the council of a county borough.
3. (c)the council of a county district,
4. (d)the council of a rural parish or group of rural parishes or the parish meeting of a rural parish which has no separate parish council,
5. (e)the Common Council of the City of London,
6. (f)the council of a metropolitan borough,
7. (g)a county council in Scotland,
8. (h)a town council in Scotland;")

Standing Order 1, page 11, line 35, leave out (" 4, 10")

Standing Order 4, page 14, leave out lines 21 to 44 and insert— ("(2) The notice shall also state that on and after the Fourth day of December copies of the Bill, or as the case may be copies of part of the Bill, may be inspected, and at a reasonable price obtained, at the offices required by the next following Order, which offices shall be named in the notice.")

Standing Order 4, page 14, line 47, at end insert—

("Copies of Bill to be made available

4A.—(1) The Promoters shall on and after the Fourth day of December make available for inspection, and for sale at a reasonable price, copies of the Bill at an office in London and if it affects Scotland, at an office in Edinburgh and—

1. (a)if the Bill is promoted by, or alters functions of, a local authority, other than a London local authority or a parish council or parish meeting, at an office in the area of the authority;
2. (b)if the Bill alters functions of a parish council or parish meeting, at an office in the rural district in which the parish is situated;
3. (c)if the Bill is not promoted by a local authority, at an office in the county (unless that county is London), county borough or burgh in which the Promoters' principal office is situated;
4. (d)if the Bill authorises the construction of works to which Standing Order 27 applies, or the compulsory acquisition of lands or of rights to use lands, or extends the time limited by a former Act for any of those purposes, at an office in each of the counties, except London, county boroughs and burghs in which the works are to be, or the lands are, situated.

(2)It shall be sufficient compliance with sub-paragraph (a) or sub-paragraph (b)of the foregoing paragraph to make available for inspection and for sale in the area of the local authority or, as the case may be, in the rural district, copies of such part only of the Bill as alters functions of the local authority or, as the case may be, of the parish council or parish meeting.

(3) It shall be sufficient compliance with sub-paragraph (d) of paragraph (1) of this Order to make available for inspection and for sale in the county, county borough or burgh copies of such part only of the Bill as authorises the construction of works or the compulsory acquisition of lands or of rights to use lands in that county, county borough or burgh, or as extends the time limited by a former Act for any of those purposes.

(4) In this Order 'London local authority' means the London County Council, the Common Council of the City of London or the council of a metropolitan borough.

(5) The offices of a local authority, if situated outside the area of that authority, shall for the purposes of this Order be deemed to be in that area.

(6) A Bill that alters functions of a member or an officer of a local authority shall for the purposes of this Order be deemed to alter functions of that authority.")

Pages 16 and 17, leave out Standing Order 10 and insert—

("Publication of notices in newspapers

10.—(1) The notice shall be published in the newspapers prescribed by the next following paragraph, once in each of two consecutive weeks with an interval of at least six clear days between publications, the second publication being not late than the Eleventh day of December.

(2) The newspapers referred to in the foregoing paragraph are the following; —

1. (a) if the Bill is promoted by, or alters functions of, a local authority, a newspaper or newspapers circulating in the area of the authority;
2. (b) if the Bill is not promoted by a local authority, a newspaper or newspapers circulating in the county, county borough or burgh in which the Promoters' principal office is situated;
3. (c) if the Bill authorises the construction of works to which Standing Order 27 applies, or the compulsory acquisition of lands or of rights to use lands, or extends the time limited by a former Act for any of those purposes, a newspaper or newspapers circulating in each of the counties, county boroughs and burghs in which the works are to be, or the lands are, situated.

(3) Where part only of a Bill alters functions of a local authority, it shall be sufficient compliance with paragraph (1) of this Order to publish, in a newspaper or newspapers circulating in the area of the authority, so much only of the notice as relates to that part.

(4) Where part only of a Bill authorises the construction of works or the compulsory acquisition of lands or of rights to use lands in a county, county borough or burgh, or extends the time limited by a former Act for any of those purposes, it shall be sufficient compliance with paragraph (1) of this Order to publish, in a newspaper or newspapers circulating in the county, county borough or burgh, so much only of the notice as relates to that part.

(5) A bill that alters functions of a member or an officer of a local authority shall for the purposes of this Order be deemed to alter functions of that authority.")

Page 58, line 37, at end insert—

("County Council Bills conferring Powers on county district councils. Proof of need

124A.—(1) A committee on a Private Bill promoted by the council of a county shall not hear evidence that a provision in the Bill that alters functions of the council of a county district in the county is acceptable to that county district council unless the evidence comprises proof, as required by paragraph (3) of this Order, that the inclusion in the Bill of that provision has been approved by that county district council in the manner required by paragraph (2) of this Order.

(2) Approval for the purposes of paragraph (1) of this Order shall be by resolution passed by a majority of the whole number of the members of the council of the county district at a meeting thereof held after ten clear days' notice of the meeting, and of the purposes thereof, has been given by advertisement in one or more local newspapers circulating in the county district, such notice being given in addition to the ordinary notice required to he given for the convening of a meeting of the council.

(3) The proof referred to in paragraph (1) of this Order shall be a document purporting to be a copy of the resolution referred to in paragraph (2) of this Order together with a certificate purporting to be signed by the clerk of the council to the effect that the copy is a true copy and that the resolution was passed by the majority, and after the notice, mentioned in that paragraph.

(4) A provision that alters functions of a member or an officer of the council of a county district shall for the purposes of this Order he deemed to alter functions of that council.

(5) This Order shall not apply to a Bill promoted by a county council in Scotland.") —(Lord Merthyr.)

THE EARL OF HOME

My Lords, I have looked into the Amendments to the Private Bill Standing Orders which my noble friend the Lord Chairman of Committees is now moving, and as there are some very technical legal implications in the report of the Reading Committee I have asked my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack to express the view of Her Majesty's Government, if that should be necessary. There is only one other suggestion I would make. My noble friend the Lord Chairman of Committees has told the House that certain parts of the Report are being adopted and that other parts are being left over. It might suit your Lordships to pass those which are before the House to-day and perhaps to have a debate in the autumn in which the other proposals in the Report of the Reading Committee might be discussed in full; but we will see.

THE MARQUESS OF READING

My Lords, might I ask one question of the noble Lord, the Lord Chairman of Committees? This, of course, was a Joint Select Committee. May I ask what is the position in regard to proceedings in another place? Have these same Amendments to Standing Orders been accepted by the Chairman of Ways and Means there, and are they being put to the Members of another place? If so, can the noble Lord indicate when?—because it is obviously right that we should keep in step on matters of this kind.

THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES

My Lords, if I may reply to this question at this stage—and I realise, of course, that am entitled to only two speeches this afternoon—the answer to the noble Marquess is that a similar Motion is on the Order Paper in another place but has not yet been moved. I understand that its terms are identical.

2.54 p.m.

LORD LATHAM

My Lords, the House is indebted to the noble Lord, the Lord Chairman of Committees, for his succinct explanation of the purpose of these Standing Order Amendments. If I may say so, this is the end, as it wore, of an interlude in the operation of the procedure for the promotion of Private Bills, believe that my noble friends would agree with the suggestion made by the noble Earl the Leader of the House, that we should pass the Amendments before the House to-day, on the understanding that, as the noble Earl has indicated, the remainder of the Report of the Reading Committee and its recommendations may be debated at a later stage.

In those circumstances I do not propose to traverse the recommendations of the Committee, nor to provoke any controversy to-day. Perhaps it would be useful to recapitulate the course of events that led up to these Standing Orders being before your Lordships' House this afternoon. On May 13, 1958, the county councils suddenly learned that they were to be deprived of the power to promote Bills to confer powers and/or functions on county district councils unless the county council had an interest, either in the powers or in the functions. By that means the county councils lost a power which they had possessed, and had operated in many cases, for nearly 40 years.

Your Lordships will recall that on May 13, 1958, and on May 21 of that year, there were debates in your Lordships' House, and a Motion was approved removing this power from county councils pending further inquiry. As a result, a Joint Committee of both houses was appointed on February 3, 1959, and reported in July of that year. I would add my tribute to the admirable chairmanship exercised in this Joint Committee by the noble Marquess, Lord Reading, and the way in which he pleasantly and agreeable facilitated the proceedings of the Committee which at times were not without possibilities of energetic controversy. The Committee concurred in the view that county councils have a general interest in the good government of the county; and therefore the procedure complies with the requirement of the decision of the noble Lord, the Lord Chairman of Committees, which was approved by this House after debate, and of the then Chairman of Ways and Means—then Sir Charles MacAndrew, now with us as the noble Lord, Lord MacAndrew.

I think it suffices to quote the conclusion of the Committee on the main question: whether a county council had power to promote legislation to confer powers or functions upon a second-tier authority within the county. The conclusions of the Committee are set out in the Report at paragraph 32. I may perhaps, with interest, read what those conclusions were: The chief conclusion to which the Committee have come is that no principle is infringed where a county council promotes a Bill which seeks to confer powers on other authorities in the county in any local government matter, and that it may well be a matter of general convenience that where private legislation is needed by several authorities within the county, the county council should seek to obtain it on behalf of the authorities concerned. That, of course, restates the proposition dealt with with more particularity in paragraph 20 of the Report. To this extent, therefore, the Committee would suggest that the rulings made by the Chairman of Committees of the House of Lords and the Chairman of Ways and Means in the House of Commons in May, 1958. should be qualified in their application, and they consider that if the safeguards recommended by the Committee in paragraphs 23, 26 and 28 were adopted no objection on grounds of principle need in future be raised to County Council Bills containing clauses of this type. That is a reaffirmation, as I have said, of the powers which have been enjoyed and have been reasonably, modestly and moderately exercised by local authorities over the past forty years.

The recommendation in paragraph 20 is that where a county council is disinclined, for a variety of reasons, all of which may be quite proper, to promote legislation for two or more second-tier authorities within its county, then several district councils should be permitted jointly to promote legislation if there is a community of need and demand—and in regard to the need, of course, the Select Committee would have to be satisfied. This is an advantage, as is properly said, because a county council may not itself be proceeding with legislation in any particular year and may therefore not be disposed to promote a Bill to confer powers on two or three of the county district councils within its area. Moreover, promotion of a Bill involves the inconvenience—I will not put it any higher than that—that where a county council promotes legislation for a limited number of its county districts, in order to recover the costs from the county districts which are benefiting it is necessary to have a general county rate plus a special county rate.

In those circumstances, it seems to me that there is every merit in several district councils getting together, in the absence of the willingness of the county council to promote legislation, to do it themselves. Individually, it is doubtful whether other than a very few of the larger authorities within a county could afford to promote a Bill by themselves, but if there are three or four, or half a dozen, authorities, the cost can be divided between them and becomes bearable. But that matter, with other matters, can be discussed at a later stage. I gather, under the arrangement indicated by the noble Earl the Leader of the House.

The only other comment I should like to make is that the Amendment of the Standing Orders as regards parish councils and parish meetings is necessary, because to carry out in specific terms the recommendation of the Committee would be impracticable. Your Lordships will appreciate that fact when I tell you that, according to information I have received, in the West Riding of Yorkshire alone there are no fewer than 450 rural parishes, of which 177 have no parish council. Many small rural parishes have no recognised place at which copies of the Bill could suitably be deposited. Therefore the proposal to deposit Bills within the area of the rural district within which the parish exists is a practical and, I think, reasonable modification of that recommendation. I hope that your Lordships will pass the amended Standing Orders as on the Paper and that later on we can have the debate upon the general implications of the Reading Committee's Report.

3.4 p.m.

LORD GREENHILL

My Lords, am I right in thinking that when the Lord Chairman moved his Amendments he told us, in effect, that while he agreed in general with the terms outlined, there were certain parts he could snot accept? May I he told whether he has powers as Chairman to take that line or am I incorrect in my assumption?

LORD MERTHYR

My Lords, the answer to the noble Lord, Lord Greenhill, is that ultimately, of course, the decisions are the decisions of your Lordships' House. What I am doing to-day is moving certain Amendments to the existing Standing Orders. As I have indicated, and as the noble Lord has apprehended correctly, these Amendments which I move to-day do not carry out in whole, though they do in part, the recommendations of the Committee. It is no new thing, if I may say so, for the recommendations of Select Committees, Royal Commissions, Departmental Committees and so forth not to be carried out in whole. Some, indeed, are not carried out even in part, as I know from my personal experience as a member of such bodies. I might perhaps mention that there was a somewhat similar Joint Select Committee on the same subject in 1955. I have just been looking at their Report (I myself sat on that body), and I find that quite a number of their recommendations have not so far been carried out, though some have.

The particular answer to the noble Lord is that, as has been mentioned by the noble Earl the Leader of the House, it is still left open after to-day for the House to decide whether it wishes to take further action about that part of the Committee's Report that is not covered by these Standing Orders. I am proposing certain Amendments and asking your Lordships' approval for them. As for the other parts, I am not making any proposals to-day. I hope that I have answered the noble Lord.

LORD GREENHILL

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord very much.

LORD SILKIN

My Lords, may I ask this question? It is quite clear, is it not, that the noble Lord, Lord Merthyr, is acting entirely on his own initiative in putting clown these Standing Orders and that no one else is implicated they are entirely his own ideas as to which part of the Report he accepts or rejects? I think that the question of my noble friend Lord Greenhill was this is that: in accordance with precedent? Is there, in fact, a Standing Order which permits the Lord Chairman of Committees in this House to take that line? The noble Lord, with respect, has not answered that.

The other question, which I should like to put to the noble Earl the Leader of the House, is this. When we have this discussion, will he consider whether it would not be convenient, to have it on a Government Motion, which would permit of any noble Lord moving an Amendment—for instance, if it were so desired, to incorporate some of the recommendations of the Reading Committee which the noble Lord, Lord Merthyr, did not think fit to incorporate. If one could have a Motion of that kind, a Government Motion, I think we might have a useful debate.

3.9 p.m.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT KILMUIR)

My Lords, it may be convenient if I say a word. I had made it my duty, at the request of my noble friend the Leader of the House, to acquaint myself with the details of the Standing Orders which this Motion seeks to abandon. I listened with the greatest care to the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Latham. I understood that he accepted the modifications in the Report of the Committee which are indicated in these Amendments, and I could see from his reference to the West Riding that, in his consideration of the matter, he had followed the same lines as I had myself. I therefore think it would be an imposition for me to go through these in detail and justify modifications which have been accepted by the House and by the noble Lord, Lord Latham.

I think it is absolutely clear, however (and this deals with the point of the noble Lord, Lord Silkin), that the Amendments on the Order Paper to-day are entirely without prejudice to the remainder of the recommendations of the Report of the Committee presided over by my noble friend Lord Reading. Indeed, I think the noble Lord, Lord Latham, would agree with me that tie Amendments on the Paper would be helpful to those who are considering private legislation in various ways. I need not go into the detail, but I think it would be unfortunate from their point of view if we did not give them this limited guidance on these points. But I have considered the matter very carefully, and I gather that the noble Lord, Lord Latham, agrees that these Amendments will not prejudice or affect in any way the decision of your Lordships on the other point. It is therefore in that spirit that we approach the Amendments to-day.

With regard to the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Silkin, my noble friend the Leader of the House and I will consider with great sympathy the question of the Motion, but, as he knows, and as the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, knows, from past experience, it is often a matter which requires consideration, as to how far you put in your Motion approval of various points, how far you "take note", and so on. That is a matter which my noble friend and I should like to consider before the debate comes on, and we can communicate with the noble Lord, Lord Silkin, about it. However, on the general point, I think he can take it that what we are doing to-day can be nothing but helpful, so far as it goes, and is entirely without prejudice to the views on the other point. I hope that, in that spirit, the House will accept the Amendments.

VISCOUNT BRIDGEMAN

My Lords, I was a member of the Committee of which my noble friend Lord Reading was Chairman, and I am sure that my noble Leader is right in suggesting that we should pass these Amendments now and leave the general position to be debated in the autumn. I would therefore say only one thing: that between now and then we may well have listened to a gracious Speech. If that gracious Speech were found to contain some reference to a general Bill dealing with these matters, then I think that many of us would feel that we were very much assisted in assessing the general position as regards Private Bills.

THE MARQUESS OF READING

My Lords, my original intervention was in the nature of a question, and therefore, perhaps, I may, very briefly, take up the time of the House. The position in regard to these proposed alterations is, by now, I think, very clear. They are what I may call, using the lawyer's term, interlocutory in a sense, in so far as they do not prejudice any alterations which may come about as a result of the debate. But, for the moment, these are the Amendments which are before the House. The noble Lord, the Lord Chairman of Committees, was good enough to explain to me the reasons why the Government were unable to follow entirely the recommendations of the Committee over which I presided. Of course, the Committee itself is functus officio, and I can speak only as an individual; but, so far as I personally am concerned, I see every reason for the decision to present these Amendments in their present form, and I fully accept the reasons for departing from the recommendations of the Committee. I am obliged to the noble Lord, Lord Latham, for what he was kind enough to say about any personal part I played in the deliberations of the Committee. I very much hope that the House will accept these proposed Amendments in the form in which they are now before it.

On Question, Motion agreed to: the said Standing Orders amended accordingly.