NORTHERN RHODESIA AND NYASALAND (Hansard, 28 January 1960)

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

THE EARL OF HOME
My Lords, my right honourable friend, the Prime Minister said in reply to a question at a Press conference in Lagos on January 13: The Government of the United Kingdom has made it clear—abundantly clear—that we will not remove the protection of the British Government to either of the Northern Territories—Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland—until it is clear that the expressed wish of these peoples is to enter into a full and independent Federation. He said in Salisbury on January 19 that in these remarks on Lagos he was speaking of the independent Federation of the future, and that he was repeating in other words exactly what he had said in another place on July 22, 1959.
The Prime Minister on July 22 made it quite clear that British Government protection will be maintained until the peoples of Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland are agreed that it is no longer needed; and that it is only then that the Federation will be able to go forward to full independence. In all these statements the Prime Minister was merely reiterating assurances which have often been given before, including those contained in the Preamble to the Federal Constitution. It follows that there has been nothing to cause Her Majesty's Government to modify their views, as stated by the Prime Minister in another place on July 21 and November 24, 1959, about the scope of the Monckton Commission in the light of its terms of reference.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, may we understand from the statement which the noble Earl has kindly made that the situation is that Her Majesty's Government intend that the Conference which is to take place in 1960—I think rather prematurely—will be on the lines which were, I should have thought, foreshadowed in Article 99 of the Annex to the Order in 773 Council, 1953—that is, to review the Constitution as such, and therefore nothing concerning that Constitution ought to be excluded? If the protection of Her Majesty's Government to these two Protectorates is to be continued in the light of the language of the Prime Minister on three occasions, ought there not first to be a very rapid stimulation for providing for the democratic representation of the African population in the Northern Rhodesian and Nyasaland Legislatures, so that when the Conference does take place on the revision of the Constitution, at which nothing should be excluded, you will have the properly represented views of the native population?

THE EARL OF HOME
My Lords, the noble Viscount's supplementary is rather outside the terms of the original Question, but I am perfectly willing to answer it. Her Majesty's Government have always made it clear that they are willing to proceed as fast as possible with the Constitutions and constitutional advance of the two Northern Territories for which they are responsible, and the noble Viscount will remember that it was only the violence which broke out in Nyasaland that prevented the former Colonial Secretary from achieving a considerable scheme of constitutional advance eighteen months ago.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE
My Lords, to give a point to the thing, would Sir John Moffat's speech, which he made yesterday in the Northern Legislature, be in order as evidence before the Monckton Commission?

THE EARL OF HOME
The noble Viscount must realise that when a Commission of this sort is appointed by the Government, the Commission lays down its own procedure. It is not for any of the Governments to choose what witnesses the Commission hears.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE
It is not a question of procedure but a question of scope. Sir John Moffat made a most important speech and I am asking whether that speech would be admissible as evidence under the terms of reference of the Monckton Commission.

THE EARL OF HOME
My Lords, I should need notice of that question, but I am not going to be drawn into saying 774 who should be a witness before the Commission and who should not. It is for the Commission itself.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE
I have not asked any such question. First of ail I would ask the noble Earl why he is answering for Rhodesia and Nyasaland. This is a Colonial Office matter; it has nothing to do with Commonwealth relations except on the side. There is a great tragedy ahead of us here. But I will not pursue the matter if the noble Earl wishes to evade it; I will leave it at that.

THE EARL OF HOME
My Lords, I was not in the least contesting the noble Viscount's right to ask a supplementary question. All I was going to tell him was that I am answering this Question because this is a review of the Federal Constitution, which is a matter concerning the Commonwealth Secretary and not the Colonial Secretary. The noble Viscount is therefore not right when he says that this is not my concern. As to the question of witnesses, the Prime Minister has made it clear that it is our wish that the Monckton Commission should hear all sorts of views from all sorts of people. As to the particular speech made by Sir John Moffat, of course I would not express an opinion now.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, may we understand from the two replies the noble Earl has kindly given that it is not the intention of the Government—though of course they retain the right to protect the Protectorates in certain circumstances—in reviewing the Constitution of the Federation, to consider the question of the right of either of the Protectorates to secede or to suggest any other form of association than the one existing in the present Federation?

THE EARL OF HOME
My Lords, the Prime Minister has made it clear—and I would repeat it—that the purpose of the Monckton Commission (and I am sure this is what Parliament would wish) is to tell us how Federation can be made to work; that is the purpose of the Commission. The Commission is full of very responsible, knowledgeable men, and if they conclude that their task is impossible they will say so. But do not let Parliament hope for that. Let us 775 hope for a constructive proposal from the Commission so that this great experiment can succeed.

LORD SALTOUN
My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl, is it not the practice of this House, and has it not been for a very long time, that all Questions are asked of Her Majesty's Government and not of any particular Minister?

§ LORD SILKIN
My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl, in view of his last statement, which seems to me some advance, this further question? If it should turn out that in the view of the Commission some other form of co-operation, or none, is desirable, will such recommendation be taken note of by the Government and acted on?

THE EARL OF HOME
My Lords, I think it very unwise to try to answer hypothetical questions. I would leave these very responsible people to do their jobs, which they are eminently equipped to do, and advise the Governments. The Governments are not bound by the advice of the Monckton Commission, but I think everybody will agree that in the circumstances it will be extremely valuable. In answer to my noble friend Lord Saltoun, it is true that Questions are put down to Her Majesty's Government but in practice we know which Minister covers which subject.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
In view of that reply, I hope that we may expect a far more considerate attitude to the Report of the Monckton Commission than we thought the Government gave to the Report of the Devlin Commission.

§ THE EARL OF SWINTON
My Lords, may I ask whether it would not be more consonant with the public interest and the traditions of Parliament if, as we did both when the Labour Government were in office and when I had to preside over the Federation Conference and pilot the Bill, we were to await the Report of the Monckton Commission, after they have heard all the evidence, and then the Report of the Statutory Commission which is to sit on the general issues?

THE EARL OF HOME
My Lords, I agree with my noble friend; and I hope that when we all realise, as we must, the tremendous issues which are at stake in 776 the continent of Africa now, we shall allow the Monckton Commission to sit and to report and, as far as we can, create an atmosphere in which it can work to the best advantage.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that we are perfectly willing to do all we can to try to create the atmosphere, but the Government do not seem to respond to the efforts we are making? It is the grave mistake they have made in the Commission's terms of reference that is likely to lead to more trouble.