§ 4.21 p.m.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, with the permission of the House, I will make a short statement which was made a short time ago in another place by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, about the possibility of an agreement between the Governments of the Federal Republic and Spain for the Federal Republic to have military facilities on Spanish territory.
My right honourable friend heard last month of this possibility. He made it clear that we thought that it would be wiser for Germany to seek the required facilities in countries which are members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. That remains the view of Her Majesty's Government.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am obliged to the noble Marquess for letting us have a note of what has been said by the Foreign Secretary in another place. If, of course, we are to read into the almost ultra-diplomatic language contained in the latter part of his statement that the Government have been continuously against and are hoping to prevent this from happening, then it will perhaps be better understood by the people of this country, who have been obviously quite upset about the story which has been circulated. I note that the statement says that the Foreign Secretary heard of this 417 matter last month. Could the noble Marquess tell me whether the German staff officers' visit to Spain has taken place since then, or was it before then; and whether, before it was done, there was any attempt to have proper consultation with the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation? May I say that we certainly hold the view that the permitting by the Allies of rearmament of Germany was surely dependent upon whether they were going to work within the provisions of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation and remain always in consultation in regard to their own political Federal military policy. If that is not properly understood—and certain aspects of the Press this morning give one some doubts—surely it is time for Her Majesty's Government to make the position clear on that point.
LORD REAMy Lords, I also should like to thank the noble Marquess for his words, and to express the consternation which I think most people have felt at the news which has been going around. In the statement he said that his right honourable friend made it clear that he thought it would be wiser for Germany to seek the required facilities in countries which are members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. I wonder whether he could expand the words "seek the required facilities" and explain what these "required facilities" are. Would he not only bear in mind that there is consternation in this country, but perhaps also make inquiries to find out whether there is not a certain amount of real alarm in Germany itself that such a thing could have happened.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, might I ask the noble Marquess whether he has any information to show what part the Krupp iron and steel industry, which ought to have been deconcentrated under the 1953 Agreement but has not been so deconcentrated, has played in this approach by Federal Germany to Spain for military positions?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, I do not think that too much should be made of this matter yet. So far as I know, there have been no definite proposals whatsoever—none. I cannot reply exactly to the question of the noble Viscount the Leader of the Opposition in regard to timing. He asked: Did 418 these staff officers go to Spain before or after my right honourable friend was aware of this matter? I must inquire; I do not know the answer. As to the question of consultation in N.A.T.O., there has been none. There have been no definite proposals in regard to which consultation could, in fact, take place. So far as the question of facilities is concerned, I must tell the noble Lord, Lord Rea, that, as there have been no definite proposals, I cannot say exactly what facilities are being envisaged; but I understand that it is a question of logistics, as I think they are called. That is as far as I know. In reply to the question of the noble Viscount, Lord Elibank, I do not know what part, if any, was played by the Krupp organisation.
§ LORD HENDERSONMy Lords, arising out of the statement which the noble Marquess has made regarding the unilateral action by Western Germany, may I ask him whether Her Majesty's Government agree with the statement on the legal position which is expressed in The Times leading article to-day—namely, that
the West Germans could if they wished manufacture rockets and atomic warheads in Spain,and thatWest Germany's Allies can have no formal complaint"—in other words, that West Germany would be acting within her rights? This is a grave matter. I should like to ask the noble Marquess whether or not such a view is based on a legal quibble, and would not any such claim be opposed by Her Majesty's Government, as a member of N.A.T.O., as an unacceptable breach of the spirit and intention of the Agreements by which West Germany became a partner in N.A.T.O.?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, naturally I have taken careful note of what the noble Lord, Lord Henderson, has just said. I agree that this is a serious matter, but I do not think that we should exaggerate the fact too much yet. I do not think that it would be wise to enter into legal discussion in the course of question and answer now. I suggest to noble Lords that if they wish to pursue this matter further, it would be better either that they put down a Question or that it should be raised in the form of a debate.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I must say it leaves the country at large in a rather uneasy position as to what are the true facts to-day. I appreciate the difficulties of the noble Marquess, the Under-Secretary of State in the matter, but we certainly must pursue it. If it is not convenient to pursue it at present, I must give notice now that I shall raise this question on Monday next.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Viscount.