§ 3.37 p.m.
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (THE EARL OF DUNDEE)My Lords, with your Lordships' permission I will now give the Answer to the Private Notice Question on the threatened rail stoppage, which was asked by the noble Lord, Lord Silkin.
Since my right honourable friend the Minister of Labour made his statement yesterday which I read to your Lordships, he has met representatives of the British Transport Commission. He has, therefore, now seen all the parties concerned and has had a full statement of their views. His officers have again met representatives of the National Union of Railwaymen and the British Transport Commission this morning and, at his request, all parties have agreed to hold 1197 themselves available for further talks. My right honourable friend and his officers are continuing their efforts to find a basis for a settlement. My right honourable friend hopes to make a further statement in another place tomorrow.
§ 3.38 p.m.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for the statement he has made in reply to our Private Notice Question; and I should like to say how much I appreciate the indication in the Answer of the steps which are being taken by the Minister of Labour in order to try to facilitate the kind of discussions which will, we all hope, lead to a peaceable settlement of this most unfortunate and tragic situation.
I should, however, just like to say this. It might be well for us to put to the Government—I think this will also be done in another place—certain points that seem to us to stand out. First of all, we should have a clear view as to what are the desires of the main parties who must be brought together in securing a settlement. I put them in this order, as being the obvious desires. The dispute is raised in this matter by the National Union of Railwaymen. What is their desire? Their desire is to be made completely sure of a certain minimum increase. They have asked for it to be paid at once, and perhaps that might be secured. But what they want especially to be assured of, if there is a different date from this general statement"at once", is what is the actual general amount of any payment that could be authorised before the more detailed consideration, after publication, of the Guillebaud Report. That is the first point.
Then there is the desire of the other two union organisations concerned—the Railway Transport Salaried Staffs Association and the Amalgamated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen—to have, at the same time, a complete certainty that the proper differentials between grades and scales, which of course will be among the points examined in the Guillebaud Report, will be secured in the immediate discussions of that Report when available; and also that the money required to meet the differentials will still be forthcoming.
1198 Thirdly, there is the desire of the main party concerned, that is the British Transport Commission themselves, to be assured that the money will be available, with the approval of Her Majesty's Government, to meet all these requirements. The fourth desire—and I put this perhaps as the greatest of all, and one which will appeal to everybody—is the desire of Her Majesty's Government., and I am sure of Parliament and the nation, to secure that there will be no such interruption in the life of the nation, no such enormous damage by such a stoppage, to the national production and employment, with its economic setback all round, and perhaps a far greater loss to the nation as a whole, plus all the inconvenience, than would be incurred by getting an agreed settlement now and avoiding a dispute altogether.
It is for that purpose, in putting those points to the noble Earl, that I hark back to the point mentioned by my right honourable friend Mr. Robens in another place yesterday. We appreciate most highly all the efforts that have been made by the right honourable gentleman the Minister of Labour—indeed he has seen everybody—but what we asked for in another place yesterday was to have a top-level conference of representatives of these interests I have indicated—Her Majesty's Government, the British Transport Commission and the Unions concerned, and, I would add, Mr. Guillebaud, Chairman of the Committee whose report is so fundamentally important in the whole situation. With the right honourable gentlemen the Ministers of Labour and Transport present at that top-level conference it seems to me that we should have an excellent opportunity of rounding off the work already done by the Ministers and of getting something hammered out in that one top conference. If they will do that I am sure that not only the House but all the nation will wish them well.
§ 3.44 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Viscount for the care he has taken in expressing these views, and I can assure him that my right honourable friend is doing everything that is humanly possible to avert a stoppage.