§ 2.50 p.m.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government, in reference to the verdict of the 1948 Military Court, whether they are aware that Herr Alfried Krupp von Bohlen and Halbach has offered to pay £500,000 compensation to the remaining 12,000 of the Jews who were slave labourers in his armament factories during the 1939–45 war, and that his personal fortune is valued at not less than £14,000,000; and whether the Mixed Committee set up to consider applications for the disposal of certain of his assets under the 1953 Deconcentration Agreement has arrived at any decision as regards an extension of the date beyond January 31, 1960.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE)My Lords, the Answer 866 to the first part of the Question is, Yes. The Answer to the second part of the Question is that the Committee announced on January 25 that it had granted an extension up to January 31, 1961.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I thank the noble Marquess for his Answer. Could he inform us what the position is in regard to the publication of the report and deliberations of the Committee in this matter? Further, may I ask him whether Her Majesty's Government will vigorously press for the publication both of the report and of the deliberations so that the British nation, which will eventually, through its economy, have to pay the piper for this infamous employer of slave labour getting away with his ill-gotten gains, may know exactly what the position is and precisely on what grounds he has been granted this extension of time for a year?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, I think I have in fact answered this question on a previous occasion. The Bonn Settlement Convention does not oblige the Committee to make a report. I understand, however, that a report is under consideration, and I hope that it may be ready in a few weeks' time. Until the report is received, naturally I cannot comment at all on the Committee's decision. Whether this report will or will not be published is, as I have told your Lordships on more than one occasion, a matter for the Governments concerned.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, in view of the agreement of the noble Marquess with the first part of my noble friend's Question, may I ask him whether the £14 million mentioned as being the fortune of Herr Krupp is not a gross underestimate? Is it not the fact that, due to Allied and West German policy, Herr Krupp, the slave labour user, has become the richest man in Europe?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, in regard to the first part of the question, that figure was supplied by the noble Viscount, Lord Elibank. As regards the second part of the question, I have no comment to make.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNETechnically, my Lords, no; but the vote was, in fact, unanimous.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, may I ask this further question of the noble Marquess? When he referred, in his main Answer, to the report, did he mean the report of the finding of the Committee or the report of its deliberations? What I want is the report of the deliberations of the Committee.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, I had hoped that I had made that clear. There is no obligation under the Bonn Convention for a report on the deliberations to be issued at all.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, will not the noble Marquess, on behalf of Her Majesty's Government, press for a report (it is open to the Committee to issue a report if it wants to) so that the British nation may know on what grounds this extension has been granted?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, the Committee is an autonomous body. It is not proper for Her Majesty's Government to press the Committee to do anything.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, may I ask the noble Marquess, first, whether this Committee has ever, in the case of making previous postponements, issued a report? Secondly, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government now agree with and concur in the decision of the Committee?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, this is the first postponement that has been made by this Committee: I think that should be clear. So far as the question of whether Her Majesty's Government agree or not is concerned, that really is not a question that I can answer. We accept the opinion of this Committee which has been set up with the agreement of four Governments.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, does that mean that we are a party to the reinstitution of the Krupp armament factories which were one of the most dangerous things we had to face in the last war?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEWith great respect, that is quite beyond the terms of the original Question.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, perhaps I can pursue a point raised by my noble Leader. Can the noble Marquess say whether Her Majesty's Government accept that an average of £40 per head is appropriate compensation to the Jews who have suffered as slave labourers under this man, whose personal fortune is now estimated at a minimum of some £14 million?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, it is really not for Her Majesty's Government to pass judgment on a gesture that is made voluntarily by a citizen of another country.
§ LORD BIRDWOODMy Lords, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government are aware that in fact the original offer was raised to 10 million marks, which is nearly double the original offer, if such a sum was necessary? Would Her Majesty's Government not feel that it would be a little more generous and hopeful and constructive not to ridicule this offer, but to welcome it?
LORD REAMy Lords, may I ask the noble Marquess whether he would agree that this is not the first occasion on which my noble friend Lord Elibank has put a question on this matter; and would he agree that the reason for his repeated questions is presumably that he has not been able to get a very definite answer from the Government? And is that not because the Committee is called a"Mixed Committee"?
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, may I ask, on what was said by the noble Lord, Lord Birdwood, whether any compensation is sufficient to meet the dreadful things that these people had to go through?
VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, does the noble Marquess know what happened when 60,000 women were taken out of Auschwitz, and sent without shoes—
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH RELATIONS (THE EARL OF HOME)My Lords, the noble Viscount must not make a speech and say what happened. My noble friend has given a definite answer. If the noble Viscount wants to make a speech he must put down a Motion, and we can then debate it.