§ 2.35 p.m.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, seeing that the principle of using pictorial stamps has been established by the existing high values, 2s. 6d. to £1, they will obtain good designs for small pictorials incorporating the Sovereign's head, perhaps in two colours or printed in line engraving, with a view to judging the suitability for issue of such stamps for the purpose of bringing greater revenue to the country, and of serving as ambassadors of Great Britain to millions of people abroad.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD CHESHAM)No, my Lords. For reasons which have already been explained, my right honourable friend cannot accept the proposal for small pictorial stamps incorporating the portrait of the Sovereign.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg to thank the noble Lord for his Answer. The position is this, is it not: that the Postmaster General condemned small, low-value pictorial stamps without ever having seen officially-made designs for them?
§ LORD CHESHAMNo, my Lords; that is not quite what the position is. I should have thought it would have been clear by now, in view of the fact that this is the fourteenth occasion on which the noble Viscount has raised this question, in addition to his recent correspondence with my honourable friend the Assistant Postmaster General, that it is a matter of the existing stamp 84 policy, which is to have a basic series for a reign based on the head of the Sovereign as the dominant theme. Therefore it is not a question so much of what the others may look like and whether they need trying, because there would be no point in doing that unless the policy were changed, and there is no intention of changing the policy.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, who invented this policy? Does the noble Lord think it is quite respectful to Parliament merely to reply "No" to a suggestion which is growing more and more interesting as time goes on? Is the noble Lord aware that our postbags are filled with letters from China, Central Europe, America, with beautiful stamps advertising their country? Why should we continue to pursue this out-of-date policy? And who invented it?
§ LORD CHESHAMThe same people. If the noble Viscount recalls, we invented stamps, and that has been the policy ever since. I know that there are many beautiful stamps produced by other countries, but they are not small pictorial stamps of the same size as our own. We ourselves produce pictorial stamps, as the noble Viscount points out in his Question, but they are double the size and are not, for the reasons we have been into before, acceptable for general use.
§ LORD CHESHAMNo, my Lords; but ever since we have had stamps the policy of the Postmaster General has been to use the head of the Sovereign as the dominant feature. I hope, for myself, that it will continue to be so for a very long time.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, is it not a fact that the Postmaster General has condemned these stamps without having seen an officially-made design? Is it not also a fact that the Queen's head can still remain the dominant feature of small pictorial stamps?
§ LORD CHESHAMNo, it is not a fact that the Postmaster General has condemned these stamps without looking at them, because to condemn something you have to consider using it. Without 85 changing the policy he cannot consider using it, and therefore there is no possible point in his looking at these stamps. The question of the dominance of the Queen's head on the trial pictorial stamps that the noble Viscount so ingeniously produced raises a number of troubles and whether it would not raise a certain number of other difficulties depends on opinion—and his is not by any means universally Shared.
THE EARL OF HADDINGTONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord these two questions? Would he not agree that those responsible for the design both of our stamps and of our banknotes show extraordinarily little imagination? Does he not really think that more pictorial stamps would be a great asset to our country, particularly from the tourist point of view? After all, the suggestion that the noble Viscount is making is only in the nature of an experiment to judge of their suitability, and surely that is not very much to ask.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I do not think I should repeat for the third time the point about policy; I do not seem to be getting it over very well. I can only say that so far as the conservatism (with a small "c", I trust my noble friend meant) of the stamps is concerned, it is in fact very well liked in this country. So far as the tourist trade is concerned, we are told that there is evidence of great support. We had a letter from the British Travel and Holidays Association in 1959, and we had one previously in 1956. The noble Viscount, Lord Elibank, and the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, tell us that their postbags are full apparently with support for this question. I can only compliment them, not for the first time, on having their postbags so carefully filled with opinions that apparently back up their own. Other people are not so fortunate in that respect. So far as the tourist industry is concerned, I do not know how much help this would be. It is extremely doubtful whether such 86 small stamps would be of help. I understand that the tourist trade is running at a record level and that the British Travel and Holidays Association are much more concerned with the accommodation of tourists when they are here than with getting them here.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEIf I may say so, the noble Lord is mistaken in what he thought I said. I never said I had letters supporting these stamps; I should be surprised if I did. I said many countries in the world are advertising themselves with the most beautiful stamps—he must know that—and I said that my postbag frequently contained beautiful stamps from various countries (the United States is one; China is another) which advertise and raise the respect for the country that sends them out.
LORD SALTOUNMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether there is any possibility, on what he said, of our getting back to the original design of the old Penny Black, which I think is very widely considered to be one of the most beautiful stamps ever made.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I shall certainly be pleased to pass on the words of my noble friend Lord Saltoun. I must apologise to the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, if I misunderstood about his postbag. I was recollecting a previous remark of the noble Viscount, Lord Elibank, that his postbag was full of such letters.
§ LORD CHESHAMI know about the beauty of those other stamps. I have a sheet of them in the back of my folder here. They are all much larger than the standard size of stamp which the noble Viscount is suggesting should be made into pictorials.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg to give notice that I shall return to this subject at an early date.