§ 2.35 p.m.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the total payment made during each of the last five years from the United Kingdom Exchequer funds to the Commonwealth of Australia for deficiency payments for meat (beef, mutton and lamb).]
THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (EARL WALDEGRAVE)My Lords, the deficiency payments which have been made to the Australian Government during the last five years are £121,724 in 1955–56; £2,603,465 in 1956–57; and £4,741,475 in 1957–58. All these payments were on beef. No payments were incurred in 1958–59 or 1959–60.
§ LORD WISEMy Lords, while thanking the noble Earl for his reply, may I ask him, as I understand that these deficiency payments are made under a contract for bulk purchase, how long the contract has to run? And would it not be desirable, if the contract is to run out shortly, for some arrangement to be made whereby a fixed sum will be paid in deficiency payments and not a fluctuating amount which, on the face of the figures which have been given to me, seems to favour the Australian farmers appreciably?
EARL WALDEGRAVEMy Lords, I am not quite sure whether I can agree with the word "contract". There is 836 an agreement with the Australian Government which was started, I believe, by the Labour Government in 1951. This is a deficiency payment, and the Australian Government gets paid when the price warrants the payment on the agreed prices. The prices are under review, I think, at the end of this year, for the renewal of the agreement.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, might I ask the noble Earl whether this deficiency payment is not in fact the difference between the average market price here and a price previously agreed with the Australian Government? Is not the effect of that that in any case the Australian producer gets the minimum agreed price, and when the prices are higher here, he gets a price above that? Is not that the position?
EARL WALDEGRAVEMy Lords, the minimum prices vary according to the different grades of meat. The schedule is exceedingly complex and I would rather not go into it at this moment. I could circulate the complete schedule in the OFFICIAL REPORT. I think it would be a little misleading if I tried to summarise the very complex schedule of prices.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, whilst I do not want to make any difficulties for the noble Earl, may I ask whether he could not answer on the question of principle the simple point as to whether, whatever the grades of meat, the Australian producer either gets a fixed agreed price, including whatever subsidy we pay, or the market price here? Is that not the position? If so, is he not in a much better position than our own farmers?
EARL WALDEGRAVENo, he is not in a much better position. As I understand it, the Australian farmer is entitled to a deficiency payment on agreed prices for various grades of meat. If the prices at which the meat is sold in this country do not come up to the agreed market price, he gets the deficiency payment, as does the British farmer. As I have shown in my Answer, during the last two years we have paid no deficiency payments to the Australian Government for their beef, and have never paid anything on their mutton or lamb in these five years.