§ 2.42 p.m.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to enforce the pledge given by the South African Government to the workers at Simonstown when it was taken over.]
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH RELATIONS (THE EARL OF HOME)My Lords, I have no evidence to suggest that the South African Government are failing to honour their obligations under the Simonstown Agreement.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, did the noble Earl observe that there was a demonstration by 1,000 workmen in Simonstown at the end of last week, and does he remember the pledge which was given by the South African Government to the British Government when Simonstown was handed over to their administration? Would the noble Earl permit me to refresh his memory with the words of the then Prime Minister, Sir Anthony Eden:
The Union Government have given specific undertakings … to safeguard the rights and prospects of those employed there"?Those people are now protesting that they are being treated in the same condition of semi-servitude as other workers in the Union, whereas they were previously enfranchised subjects of Her Majesty.
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, my memory is quite fresh. As a matter of fact, I actually negotiated this Agreement I should like, therefore, to refresh the noble Viscount's memory with the actual conditions. I think he will see that they are being fulfilled—at least, so far as I know. Those conditions were that there will be no bar to the recruitment and employment of non-Europeans and there will be no discrimination based on colour in the rates of pay for comparable jobs—
THE EARL OF HOMENon-Europeans, once recruited, will have the same security of tenure as Europeans. So I have no evidence to show that the conditions of the Agreement are not being fulfilled.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, I am very much obliged to the noble Earl, but may I point out that at the time when the Treaty was negotiated, in 1954, there were already regulations and pass laws imposed on Union subjects but not on our men. Why did not the noble Earl bring this point out? Why did he put into the mouth of the right honourable gentleman the Prime Minister what appeared to us to be a specific assurance that their political and economic position would be maintained?
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, if the noble Viscount will study the Agreement, I think he will see the three conditions which were written into it. Those had nothing at all to do with internal passes in the Union. As a matter of fact, I understand that the position, on passes, is that Africans do not have to carry them any longer. The noble Viscount probably knows that there is in existence legislation concerning identity cards in the Union under which cards will have to be carried, when the Act comes into force, by both Europeans and Africans.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, I am very fortunate in being able to ask these questions of the noble Earl but I still cannot understand why a Treaty was made which demoted free subjects of Her Majesty the Queen into servitude under the Union Government.
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, it was, of course the transfer of the Simonstown base which was involved, and certain conditions were made to safeguard 623 African employees. I believe those safeguards which were inserted—which was the subject of the Question—are being observed.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, the noble Earl is extremely informative, but not on the point at issue, which is the fact that we permitted these people, who were fellow citizens of ours, enjoying the same rights, sub silentio to be pushed into the class of the African Union workmen, who have not political rights, without mentioning it to Parliament.
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, what I am being informative upon is the subject of the noble Viscount's Question. He is asking whether, in fact, the Simonstown Agreement is in force; and I am saying I have no evidence whatever to show that the Agreement—and I am not talking about the merits of the undertaking—is not being carried out.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEThen the matter is now clear: when this Agreement to transfer Simonstown was made we took no thought whatever for the rights of our fellow subjects in Simonstown.
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, I cannot let the noble Viscount get away with that, for the whole purpose of my Answer has been to show that the rights in the Agreement, on which we insisted, are being carried out.
VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, that is exactly what I am saying—that Her Majesty's Government did not insist on the political rights of the sailors and the workmen in Simonstown.
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, I doubt if I shall ever alter the noble Viscount's opinion, but I have given him the correct information.