HL Deb 12 May 1959 vol 216 cc323-9

5.29 p.m.

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Denham.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The EARL OF BUCKINGHAMSHIRE in the Chair.]

Clause 1 [Prohibition of certain practices at sales purporting to be sales by auction]:

LORD DENHAM moved to leave out Clause 1, and to insert the following new clause:

Penalties for promoting or conducting mock auctions

".—(1) It shall be an offence to promote or conduct, or to assist in the conduct of, a mock auction at which one or more lots to which this Act applies are offered for sale.

(2) Any person guilty of an offence under this Act shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds, or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or to both such a fine and such imprisonment.

(3) Subject to the following provisions of this section, for the purposes of this Act a sale of goods by way of competitive bidding shall be taken to be a mock auction if, but only if, during the course of the sale—

  1. (a) any lot to which this Act applies is sold to a person bidding for it, and either it is sold to him at a price lower than the amount of his highest hid for that lot, or part of the price at which it is sold to him is repaid or credited to him or is stated to be so repaid or credited, or
  2. (b) the right to bid for any lot to which this Act applies is restricted, or is stated to 324 be restricted, to persons who have bought or agreed to buy one or more articles, or
  3. (c) any articles are given away or offered as gifts.

(4) A sale of goods shall not be taken to be a mock auction by virtue of paragraph (a) of the last preceding subsection, if it is proved that the reduction in price, or the repayment or credit, as the case may be,—

  1. (a) was on account of a defect discovered after the highest bid in question had been made, being a defect of which the person conducting the sale was unaware when that bid was made, or
  2. (b) was on account of damage sustained after that bid was made."

The noble Lord said: This Amendment is a complete re-drafting of the original Clause 1 of the Bill. Under the existing clause it was an offence to do a number of things which, on the face of them, are harmless. To the uninitiated, to return part of the price paid for a lot or make gifts to members of the audience appear to be harmless faults, or even commendable in an auctioneer. The charge, on prosecution, under the Bill as it stands would read, for example, that while conducting a sale at which an assembly of persons were invited to acquire prescribed articles by competitive bidding he accepted from the highest bidder less than the amount of his highest bid. It might seem to the court that that was a mere technicality and they might not feel able to impose more than a nominal penalty for it. The new clause directly defines the offence as being to promote or conduct a mock auction, and then goes on to explain what a mock auction is. The charge under this Amendment would read that the person charged: promoted or conducted or assisted in the conduct of a mock auction.

Subsection (1) of the new clause defines the offence. It now includes promoting a mock auction, as well as conducting or assisting in its conduct, so as to ensure that the proprietor commits an offence even though he does not personally take part in the sale. Subsection (2) lays down the penalties under this Bill. The penalties are the same as in the original clause. Subsection (3) defines a mock auction. Subsection (3) (a) is the equivalent to the existing subsection (1) (a) in the present clause. It has been extended to include the return of money already paid by the bidder to the auctioneer, as well as the auctioneer's accepting less money in the first place, Subsection (3) (b) has the same effect as subsection (1) (c) in the original clause, forbidding the auctioneer to restrict the right to bid for any lot to persons who have bought or agreed to buy one or more articles. Subsection (3) (c) is exactly the same as subsection (1) (c) in the original Bill.

Going back for a moment to Clause 1 of the original Bill, your Lordships will notice that subsection (1) (b), which prohibits a person who conducts or assists in conducting a sale at which an assembly of persons, or any of them, are invited to acquire prescribed articles by competitive bidding, from selling any prescribed article otherwise than by competitive bidding, has been left out of the new clause. The reason for this is that in an Amendment which I shall move later competitive bidding has been defined to cover slightly more than is covered at the moment. In other words, it is defined to cover sales other than by raising prices as at a normal auction. It will also cover Dutch auctions and any other form of public sale where there is an element of competition. Because of this, it is no longer practicable to have in this subsection a distinction between selling by competitive bid and selling otherwise than by competitive bidding. Subsection (4) is the equivalent to the first part of subsection (2). It is a saving clause for the advantage of bona fide auctioneers and gives them the right—or, rather, does not take away from them the right—to return any money on account of a defect discovered after the highest bid, or on account of damage sustained after that hid was made.

I should like to say how grateful I am to Her Majesty's Government, to the Home Office and the Government draftsmen for the considerable help that I have been given in drafting this and other Amendments in my name. But I must add that, whilst any credit for the drafting is due to the Government draftsmen, the responsibility is entirely mine and cannot be attached to Her Majesty's Government. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Leave out Clause 1, and insert the said new clause.—(Lord Denham.)

LORD CROOK

I rise for a moment only, because I spoke originally in favour of this Bill on Second Reading, to say that I support the Amendment which the noble Lord has been good enough to move on this occasion. I then ventured to suggest that Her Majesty's Government should offer some help to the noble Lord, and I am glad to learn from him that he has had that help, and that, with or without it, he has followed up his twelve months' work in preparing this Bill by making certain that those who took steps to evade what might have been the provisions of an Act of Parliament are dealt with before that Bill becomes an Act, by the astute way that it has now been redrafted; because the sting seems to come in the Amendment yet to be moved, where the words: sale of goods by way of competitive bidding are properly defined. I should like to congratulate the noble Lord and to commend this Amendment to those noble Lords who sit on this side of the House with me.

EARL BATHURST

As the noble Lord, Lord Denham, has mentioned the Government draftsmen, I should like, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Chesham, who is indisposed this afternoon, to thank the noble Lord, Lord Denham. There is no doubt that, as a result of the drafting of this Amendment by the Government draftsmen, it will be very much more difficult for the top men (who otherwise undoubtedly would have done so) to get round the results of his hard work. On the other hand, I must say that it is, of course, entirely up to your Lordships whether you consider this Amendment favourably or otherwise.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 2 agreed to.

Clause 3 [Interpretation]:

LORD DENHAM

The first part of this Amendment defines the words "competitive bidding". Up to now, mock auctions have always been based on the procedure at a genuine auction; that is to say, prospective purchasers have competed for the purchase of articles by way of increasing bids. After your Lordships gave a Second Reading to this Bill I chanced to go to Petticoat Lane one Sunday morning where I watched one of these mock auctioneers at work. This particular man had adopted a method which might have got round the original Bill. He held up an article and said, "Now, ladies and gentlemen, I am not going to auction this. I am going to sell it for £3 to the first lady or gentleman who puts up their hand." Sure enough, a fairly large number of people put up their hands, and he sold the article to whoever he considered was the first to do so.

A complete mock auction could be based on that procedure. That way of doing things could not be described as an auction, and there is some doubt whether, under the Bill as it stands, it could be defined as competitive bidding. But the words "competitive bidding" have now been defined so as to bring this method of selling under the cover of the Bill, and also to bring a Dutch auction, as well as a normal auction, or, I hope, any form of public sale which includes an element of competition, under the provisions of this Bill. The second part of this Amendment defines the words "lot to which this Act applies", which appear several times in the new Clause 1 as amended.

Amendment moved—

Page 2, line 27, after ("Act") insert ("sale of goods by way of competitive bidding' means any sale of goods at which the persons present, or some of them, are invited to buy articles by way of competitive bidding, and 'competitive bidding" includes any mode of sale whereby prospective purchasers may be enabled to compete for the purchase of articles, whether by way of increasing bids or by the offer of articles to be bid for at successively decreasing prices or otherwise. () In this Act 'lot to which this Act applies' means a lot consisting of or including one or more prescribed articles; and").—(Lord Denham.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD DENHAM

This Amendment leaves out the definition of the word "premises", because this word is no longer used in Clause 1, the word "place" being used in its stead.

Amendment moved— Page 2, leave out line 28.—(Lord Denham.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD DENHAM moved to add to Clause 3: () In this Act 'stated', in relation to a sale of goods by way of competitive bidding, means stated by or on behalf of the person conducting the sale, by an announcement made to the persons for the time being present at the sale. () For the purposes of this Act any bid stated to have been made at a sale of goods by way of competitive bidding shall be conclusively presumed to have been made, and to have been a bid of the amount stated; and any reference in this Act to the sale of a lot to a person who has made a bid for it includes a reference to a purported sale thereof to a person stated to have bid for it, whether that person exists or not. () For the purposes of this Act anything done in or about the place where a sale of goods by way of competitive bidding is held, if done in connection with the sale, shall be taken to be done during the course of the sale, whether it is done at the time when any articles are being sold or offered for sale by way of competitive bidding or before or after any such time. () Subject to the provisions of section thirty-three of the Interpretation Act, 1889 (which relates to offences under two or more laws), nothing in this Act shall derogate from any right of action or other remedy (whether civil or criminal) in proceedings instituted otherwise than under this Act.

The noble Lord said: This Amendment is in four parts. The first part defines the word "stated", which appears several times in the amended Clause 1 and in the second subsection of this Amendment. The reason for this second subsection is that some of the bids stated to have been made at a mock auction are in fact non-existent bids from imaginary persons at the back of the crowd. Where a person present actually makes a bid, it is sometimes difficult to identify him after the sale so that he can be brought to give evidence. Under this paragraph it will be enough for the purposes of the prosecution for a policeman to give evidence that the top man or auctioneer stated that a bid was made.

The purpose of the third subsection is to bring in things done in connection with the sale by competitive bidding, whether done before or after the sale. For instance, distribution of gifts before the first lot is put up for sale by competitive bidding would not otherwise be covered. The fourth subsection is designed to remove any fear there may be that creation of a special offence relating to mock auctions might remove other civil or criminal proceedings connected with them.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 32, at end insert the said new subsections.—(Lord Denham.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 3, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 4 [Short title and commencement.]

LORD DENHAM

This Amendment excludes Northern Ireland from the provisions of the Bill. The reason for this is that the Government of Northern Ireland themselves have power to promote legislation such as this, and in fact have already passed one Act dealing with mock auctions, the Auctions (Local Control) Act, although this particular Act is not in the same form as the Bill we have here. I beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Page 2, line 36, at end insert— ("() This Act shall not extend to Northern Ireland.")—(Lord Denham.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 4, as amended, agreed to.

House resumed.