§ 6.10 p.m.
§ Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.
§ Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Aberdare.)
§ On Question, Motion agreed to. House in Committee accordingly.
§ [The LORD MERTHYR in the Chair.]
§ Clause 1 agreed to.
§ LORD MESTON moved, after Clause 1, to insert the following new clause:
§ Byelaws
§ ". In section eighteen of the Housing Act, 1957 (which grants power to a local authority to make a closing order as to part of a building) the word 'byelaws' shall be substituted for the word 'regulations' wherever the latter word shall occur except in regard to regulations made by the Minister."
§ The noble Lord said: I am not trying to support the retention of unhealthy or insanitary rooms; I am merely drawing attention to a question of procedure. As your Lordships know, regulations are not subject to any appeal or, so far as I know, to the launching of any objections before they are actually made. On the other hand, I feel that the procedure by way of by-laws, so far as local authorities are concerned, is far more fair to the public than procedure by way of regulations.
§ I think I am correct in saying that bylaws are made under Section 250 of the Local Government Act, 1933. In effect, that provides that a by-law made by the authority is not effective until it is confirmed by the confirming authority. Notice of intention to apply for confirmation must be published in local newspapers, and a copy of the by-laws must be deposited at the offices of the authority 203 and open to inspection. It appears to me that people may make an objection to the by-law to the confirming authority, who will take it into consideration before they decide whether or not the by-law should be confirmed. There are hundreds and possibly thousands of underground rooms all over the country, especially in the fashionable parts of London. I feel that a local authority should not be entitled to make any regulation that they care to make without any control over them whatsoever. Procedure by way of by-law is far more fair to the members of the public generally. I beg to move.
§ Amendment moved—
§ After Clause 1 insert the said new clause.—(Lord Meston.)
§ LORD ABERDAREI am most sympathetic towards the motives behind the Amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Meston, but I regret to say that there are certain serious objections to substituting by-laws for regulations. However, I hope that I can show him that the Minister will, by administrative procedure, meet the needs that he has in mind. The principal objection to working by means of by-laws is that every new by-law creates a new offence, and you would arrive at the position where people living in these underground rooms were committing an offence against the by-laws and were therefore liable to prosecution and possibly to a fine. I think your Lordships would agree that this would be highly undesirable. We certainly do not want to have more litigation than we need. What is required are general regulations under which the local authority can make a specific order closing a certain room which does not come up to the standards of being fit for human habitation.
Moreover, by-laws are best suited for purely local purposes, and regulations are of a more general nature which should cover the case of these underground rooms which do not vary much from one area to another. If I were to accept this Amendment, the effect would be that all existing regulations under the original Act would be annulled, and local authorities would have to start drafting new by-laws, which would be a lengthy process and, I think, highly undesirable under a Bill which seeks merely to restore the position to what it used to be before 204 1954. I believe it is undesirable to substitute by-laws for regulations.
However, in practice the Minister will issue model regulations to all local authorities, and when they, in their turn, submit them to the Ministry for approval, the Minister, in approving them, will ask local authorities to go through the same procedure as they would in the case of bylaws. In other words. the regulations will be open to inspection and objection for a period of three weeks. I hope that that will satisfy the noble Lord, Lord Meston, and that he will see his way open to withdrawing the Amendment.
LORD MESTONI am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, for what he has said. I must say that I am surprised, in a sense, that I should have got such an extremely sympathetic and useful answer. I am not suggesting that the noble Lord is not always sympathetic; I meant sympathetic from the official point of view. What he has said is nearly completely satisfactory, and I beg leave to withdraw the Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Remaining clause agreed to.
§ Bill reported without amendment.