HL Deb 24 March 1959 vol 215 cc194-6
VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, I beg to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will publish the precise terms of the undertaking given by the Prime Minister of the Rhodesian Federation as to the exercise by him and his successors of the powers claimed under the Statutory Order 1199 over immigration to and emigration from the Federation.]

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWELATH RELATIONS (THE EARL OF HOME)

My Lords, I quoted the precise terms of the undertaking in my reply to the noble Viscount, Lord Alexander of Hillsborough, on March 5. I have since confirmed this to the noble Viscount by letter.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, does the noble Earl mean to say that the supreme authority for controlling the admission of visitors or Members of Parliament to the British Colony of Nyasaland remains in the hands of the Prime Minister of the Federation?

THE EARL OF HOME

My Lords, I explained to the noble Viscount and to the House the other day that immigration and emigration are federal subjects; and to that extent that is so.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

That is exactly the point. It was a surprise to most people, including The Times, to find that the words "immigration" and "emigration" provide the Prime Minister with power to exclude journalists, Members of Parliament or others, and I am asking whether the position now is that no one can enter this British Colony without permission of the Federal Prime Minister.

THE EARL OF SWINTON

My Lords, before my noble friend the Leader of the House answers that question, may I ask him whether it is not the fact that this power comes inside the Constitution, which was fully debated in Parliament and which Parliament approved—both the Act enabling the Constitution and then the Order in Council?

THE EARL OF HOME

My Lords, whatever else the noble Viscount is, he ought not to be surprised, because this has been in the Constitution for many years. Theoretically, of course, it would be possible for the Federal Government to keep anybody out of the Federation; but in fact, like any other Commonwealth country, they exercise this power in a reasonable way.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, does the noble Earl say that this matter was ever brought to the notice of your Lordships' House? The noble Earl, Lord Swinton, said that it was fully approved. Not one word was heard in debate about immigration and emigration including the exclusion of Members of Parliament and journalists.

THE EARL OF SWINTON

My Lords, this is important, and I should like to ask this question. Was not the whole of the Constitution laid in ample time before Parliament, and fully debated by Parliament—I myself was responsible for presenting it to Parliament—and was not the Order in Council laid before Parliament? Was it not up to any Member of either House—and there was plenty of debate on this Constitution—who wished to draw attention to any particular point to raise it in either House?

THE EARL OF HOME

That is so, my Lords.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, is it not a fact that the words "emigration" and "immigration" were never understood to cover visits by Members of Parliament or others to a British Colony?

THE EARL OF HOME

My Lords, this legislation of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland is comparable to legislation in otherCommonwealth countries. But Commonwealth Prime Ministers and Commonwealth Governments exercise responsibility given to them by Parliament here; and when once Parliament has given responsibility to an overseas Com- monwealth country in this way, it cannot take it away without further legislation. What interpretation the noble Viscount may put on these clauses I do not know, but they went through Parliament, of which he was a Member.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, the noble Earl is most patient on this matter, but the fact is that Nyasaland is not a Commonwealth country: it is a Colony; and powers are being assumed in Nyasaland which properly belong to the home Government.

THE EARL OF HOME

My Lords, not according to the Act of Parliament.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

My Lords, with regard to one of the answers given so patiently by the noble Earl the Leader of the House, would he not agree that the use of these powers in the case of Mr. John Stonehouse was not a reasonable one?

THE EARL OF HOME

My Lords, if the noble Viscount wants an answer to that question he must put it on the Paper and I will give him a considered reply. My immediate reply is that the use of the Federation as a place to make speeches in is a dangerous procedure.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

My Lords, in that event, I shall be glad to put down a Question, especially in view of what has happened in the other place since Mr. Stonehouse's return.