§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they were consulted by the Government of Southern Rhodesia with reference to the "Unlawful Organisation Bill", and, if so, what advice was given.]
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH RELATIONS (THE EARL OF HOME)My Lords, it is not the practice to state whether consultations have taken place with any Commonwealth country, or to disclose the nature of any consultations. I am afraid, therefore, that I cannot give the noble Lord the information which he seeks.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that this Bill in its provisions violates every fundamental principle of the British Government as set out by the Prime Minister recently: free speech, free elections and the separation of the Executive and the Judiciary? Would he confirm that we still have the right of veto against legislation which discriminates against Africans? And in order to prevent what is likely to be a great tragedy, will Her Majesty's Government veto this Bill and all similar repressive legislation?
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, the Bill, so far as I know, is not yet law. Under Article 28 of the Southern Rhodesia Constitution Letters Patent of 1923 it is provided that the Governor shall reserve certain categories of law unless he has previously obtained instructions through the Secretary of State. The two main categories of legislation, under Article 28, are, as the noble Lord indicated, legislation which discriminates against Africans or which amends the 151 Land Apportionment Act. Unless the Governor asks for prior Royal instructions, which he has not done in this case, my constitutional responsibility under Article 28 does not come into play until the law has been passed by the Southern Rhodesian Parliament; and, as I say, the law has not yet been passed.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, would the noble Earl consider, in view of the debate to-morrow, making available to all Members of the House a précis or particulars of two or three Bills presently before the Southern Rhodesia Parliament, as they will affect the course of the debate? This is one, but there are others. Or, if he cannot make them available, could we get them at his office or get the information accurately in some form?
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, as the noble Viscount knows, laws are often brought into Parliament and altered greatly during their passage through Parliament. Laws do not necessarily go through the Southern Rhodesian Parliament in the form in which they are introduced. I do not think I could produce the Bills to your Lordships' House between now and to-morrow, but I will consider what information I can make available.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, when it comes to considering this Unlawful Organisation Bill, would the noble Earl consider that a Bill which makes illegal the African Congress is not a Bill which affects African interests? That is the issue.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, is the noble Earl also aware that this Bill has had a Second Reading, without a Division, and therefore it has advanced considerably? Would he bear in mind in any representations that may be made by Her Majesty's Government, private as they may be, that hundreds of people are being detained without trial and without being charged? How can we ever again protest against Communist repression if we permit this kind of tyranny, without protest, in the British Commonwealth?
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, most Commonwealth countries have Preventive Detention Acts, which the noble 152 Lord will no doubt study with care. But, as I say, these Bills have not yet become law. Although I cannot reveal the consultations that we have, or the nature of them, I will bear the noble Lord's remarks in mind.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, will the noble Earl answer the question: Does he consider that a Bill which outlaws the African National Congress is not a Bill specially affecting the interests of Africans?
THE EARL OF HOMEMy Lords, it depends whether or not the membership of the African National Congress is purely African, and I think it is not.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, may I take it that the noble Earl the Leader of the House and we all sympathise with him in his anxious time just now will not be prevented from making good will representations to such places as Southern Rhodesia, and pointing out what would be likely to be the best all round, in the interests of the Commonwealth?