HL Deb 23 March 1959 vol 215 cc155-8

2.51 p.m.

THE EARL OF DUNDEE rose to move, That the Draft National Insurance (Earnings) Regulations, 1959, be approved. The noble Earl said: My Lords. I beg to move that these draft Regulations be approved. As your Lordships are aware, these Regulations are presented to Parliament on the advice of the National Insurance Advisory Committee. They have already been discussed and unanimously approved in the other place and they require the approval of this House also. These Regulations, which are made under the authority of the Act, do not raise the question of whether an earnings rule is or is not necessary. If that were raised we might perhaps have quite an interesting debate. All they do is to raise the limit of earnings which may be earned by a retirement pensioner or a widow in receipt of the retirement pension, or a widowed mother who comes under a different category in the Act, by substantial amounts in order to bring the permitted earnings into line with the increase in wages.

In the case of retirement pensions that is for men between the ages of 65 and 70 and women between the ages of 60 and 65 the present limit is 50s. a week on which no deduction is made, and for the first 20s. after that only 6d. in every ls. is deducted; therefore at present a pensioner can earn up to 50s. with no deduction, 70s. with 6d. in the ls. deduction on the additional pound and after 70s. it is not worth his while earning any more. Those amounts are being raised by these Regulations to 60s. and 80s. respectively; that is to say, he can earn up to 60s. without any deduction at all and up to 80s. with only a 50 per cent. deduction on the additional pound.

In regard to a widowed mother, the present position is that she may earn up to 60s. with no deduction and 80s. with only a half deduction on the additional pound. Under these new Regulations the amounts are again raised by 20s., so that a widowed mother will now be able to earn up to 80s. with no deduction and up to 100s. with only a 50 per cent. deduction on the last 20s. As I think your Lordships know, the case of the widowed mother has always been considered separately from that of the retired pensioner, because the widowed mother with children who are of dependent age, under 18, is nearly always herself under 60; more often she may be under 50 or even 40, and the idea of the National Insurance Act is that the majority of widowed mothers would have to spend too much time looking after their children to be able to take full-time employment.

The allowances for part-time employment have always been higher than those which applied to old age pensioners, and of course the children's allowances are also higher than the ordinary children's allowances. The widowed mother, as I think your Lordships know, receives 20s. a week for the first child compared with nothing under the ordinary children's allowances. She receives 12s. for the second child, which brings it up to 20s. with the 8s. allowance, and 12s. for all other children, which would bring it up to 22s. So that a widowed mother with three dependent children would receive £3 2s. a week in children's allowances, and 50s. in her own right, making a total of £5 12s. Under the existing earnings regulations she could earn another £3, making £8 12s., without any deduction from the pension. Under these new regulations she will be able to receive up to £9 12s. without any deduction, the limit having gone up to 80s. If she earned an additional £1 over and above that. that would raise the family income to £10 2s., above which it would not be worth her while to go.

I do not wish to say anything which might raise a general discussion on the Insurance Act, and I thought your Lordships would prefer that I should state, as I have tried to do objectively, the changes which are proposed by these Regulations which are now submitted for your Lordships' approval. I beg to move.

Moved, That the Draft National Insurance (Earnings) Regulations, 1959, be approved.—(The Earl of Dundee.)

LORD PETHICK-LAWRENCE

My Lords, the noble Earl has given us a very clear and precise account of the changes provided for in these Regulations, which we very much welcome. I do not think anyone would wish in any way to detract from the propositions which he has laid down. The change in the whole standing of money and everything since these earlier Regulations were enacted has made the alterations in this new form desirable and acceptable. I think, in all directions. I well remember the special point about the widowed mother, because I think I was the first person, with my wife, to bring over from the United States a man who had brought these Regulations into being in the United States somewhere about fifty-five years or so ago. From that event the idea was translated into this country, and subsequently came into the effect which the noble Earl has described.

There is just one point about which I am not quite clear, though perhaps I should be. Do these Regulations come into being immediately they have been approved by both Houses? I understand that they have already gone through the other House. Or is there a time when they are brought into effect? Perhaps the noble Earl will say a final word in answer to that point.

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, if your Lordships approve the Regulations they will come into effect on April 20, which is the earliest date at which the necessary arrangements can be made.

On Question, Motion agreed to.