§ 2.39 p.m.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government in how many cases since May, 1957, has Her Majesty's representative at "Cocom" in Paris submitted to that body items for which, in the opinion of Her Majesty's Government, export licences to China ought to be granted; and in how many of such cases have such submissions been outvoted by the representatives of other Governments.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE)My Lords, as the noble Viscount is aware, the proceedings in "Cocom" are confidential to its fifteen members. I am therefore unable to give him the information for which he asks. I can, however, assure the noble Viscount that the limited strategic controls now applied do not prevent a substantial increase in trade between the United Kingdom and the countries of the Sino-Soviet bloc if the Governments of those countries wish to see that trade develop.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I thank the noble Marquess for that Answer. May I ask him whether he is aware that for some eight years British manufacturers, without any appeal to Parliament, have been subjected to the decisions of this Star Chamber body, at which sits a representative of the United States who have no export trade at all with China? Will Her Majesty's Government initiate steps to put an end to this system which has long outlived its functions?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNENo, My Lords.
§ LORD WILMOT OF SELMESTONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Marquess whether the decisions of this body are equally binding upon all the parties to it?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEYes, my Lords.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, may I ask the noble Marquess, if the Government will not do it now, when will they initiate steps to put an end to this embargo?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, as has been explained to the noble Viscount and to your Lordships in this House, the embargo is limited solely to items of strategic significance.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, may I, with the permission of the House, ask the noble Marquess whether he is aware of the strong differences of opinion in industry, and particularly in the electronics industry, as to what is strategic and what is not, quite apart from what the Board of Trade may think?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, all these applications for permits are, as the noble Viscount knows, carefully considered by the fifteen countries concerned. As the noble Viscount was personally informed in this House in February, in fact, our trade with China has very considerably increased. I do not want to weary your Lordships, but it might be wise to remind you that in 1957 the figure was £12,100,000, while in 1958 it was £26,700,000. As I tried to convey to the noble Viscount in my original reply, there is ample scope for a considerable increase in trade with the Sino-Soviet bloc if they so wish. With great respect to the noble Viscount, to go on harping on this very small item and suggesting that it is limiting and restricting our trade really is not quite correct.
§ LORD WILMOT OF SELMESTONMy Lords, I am sorry to press this matter but is the noble Marquess aware (and I have already brought instances to his notice) that items which are embargoed so that British manufacturers cannot supply them are subsequently shipped to 487 China by other countries who are members of this body?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, I forget whether it was to the noble Lord that I replied on this subject once before, but we have no evidence of buccaneering.