HL Deb 21 July 1959 vol 218 cc293-6

2.52 p.m.

LORD OGMORE

My Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the Report of the Devlin Commission on the recent disturbances in Nyasaland, and the Report of the Commission of Inquiry into the Kenya detention camps have been received, and, if so, when they will be laid before Parliament.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR COLONIAL AFFAIRS (THE EARL OF PERTH)

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies has received the Report of the Devlin Commission. I hope to be able on Thursday to tell your Lordships when it will be laid before Parliament.

The Report of the Committee appointed to advise the Governor of Kenya on the future administration of the remaining emergency detention camps was submitted to the Governor on July 7 and he is now studying it. Copies can be made available to Parliament as soon as the Report is published by the Kenya Government, which will probably be early in August.

LORD OGMORE

My Lords, after that rather disappointing statement, can the noble Earl say whether the first Report, that of the Devlin Commission, will be in the hands of the House in ample time so that we have a debate next week? Secondly, is it not possible for us to have the Report on the detention camps before the House rises?

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, I will certainly do what I can in relation to the first Report, to see that it is laid before Parliament ahead of time so that it will be possible to have adequate time for a debate. In regard to the second Report, I would point out that this is a Report which really bears on the question of future administration of the detention camps, and it is essentially a matter for the Governor to consider whether the advice of those who made the Report for him is administratively possible and what measures he should take. I think we must recognise that it is a matter for the Kenya Government, and leave it at that.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, may I ask whether we can be assured to-day that the Devlin Report on Nyasaland will be laid this week, so that the House will have an opportunity of studying it before we debate it, as we hope to be able to do next week? May I have that assurance, that it will be laid this week? Secondly, I must say that the suggestion in regard to the other Report seems to be rather extraordinary. I should hope that steps will be taken to have that Report laid at the earliest possible moment, and the earliest opportunity given to Parliament to debate it.

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, in regard to the Devlin Commission Report I cannot add anything to what I have already said. But I assure noble Lords that I am very much aware of the need to give time for the debate. So far as the second Report is concerned, I am not sure that there is not some misconception in regard to what we are talking about. We are talking about a Report made by a Committee under the chairmanship of Mr. Fairn to advise on the future administration of the detention camps. It is essentially a matter of administrative action for the Governor of Kenya. We have not at this moment received the Report—it is a local matter; but when it is published we shall see that it is also published over here.

LORD OGMORE

My Lords, with regard to the second Report, the Fairn Report, surely the Government here, and Parliament, have a responsibility for these detention camps. I would ask the Minister: is it not quite wrong to say that the Kenya Government is solely responsible? We are responsible, and I suggest that we should know the contents of the Report before Parliament rises. I beg the Minister to give Parliament the opportunity of reading the Report, even though the Kenya Government's comments are not to hand, before Parliament rises.

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, I never said that the second Report on the question of administration of detention camps was solely the responsibility of the Governor of Kenya or the Government of Kenya, although, clearly, theirs is the main responsibility. On the question of publication, I am afraid that it would not be practicable to get it placed or published before Parliament rises. We have not got it here at the moment. There is an issue which the Governor has primarily to think about. But in due course the House here, if it so wishes, will of course be able to debate what action the Governor proposes to take in the light of the recommendations of the Report.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

My Lords, this sounds as if we may be sentenced not to have an opportunity to debate this matter for months. It does not seem to be apparent to the Government how high and strong and deep is the feeling in the country about these events which are now being inquired into as to future administration. Surely it is fundamental in such a matter that both Parliament and the public should be informed of the situation before the House rises.

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, if it were possible: that is one question. But in the circumstances we have not yet received the Report over here; so that I think the question of publication does not arise, and certainly not its publication in time for the present. But I assure your Lordships that this particular Report is more an administrative question than anything else.

VISCOUNT STANSGATE

My Lords, does the noble Earl remember the origin of this Report? Eleven men were murdered and no one has been brought to book for it. We do not know that plans have been made to prevent that sort of thing happening again. That is what the public are thinking.

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, I quite agree that it is important that plans should be made. But the important thing is that the plans should be properly made, and made after due consideration, and not debated until the plans have been made.

LORD WILMOT OF SELMESTON

My Lords, does the noble Earl not appreciate that the prime responsibility for all this rests on Parliament here, and that if the Government require this Report to be available before the Recess and to be in the Library, available for Members to study it, they have only to say that that is what they wish to be done? I suggest to the noble Earl that that is the Government's plain duty in this matter.

THE EARL OF PERTH

My Lords, I have said that what is more important is to know what the Governor proposes to do at the same time, and then for the House to be able to decide whether or not what he has recommended and proposed is good or bad.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, many members of the public will feel that there is far too much covering up in this matter.