§ 2.37 p.m.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have taken or propose to take steps to improve the information available to the Foreign Office from British Embassies, having regard to recent experience in Iraq and Cuba.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government understand the anxiety which has been expressed in many quarters on this important subject. If, however, the Question of the noble Viscount the Leader of the Opposition was intended to imply that any of Her Majesty's representatives abroad had failed in their duty, I cannot accept that implication. It is, of course, one of the first concerns of my right honourable 788 and learned friend to ensure that the flow of information from Her Majesty's Missions overseas is maintained and, wherever possible, improved. The various methods of achieving this are constantly under review.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I would assure the noble Marquess, whether or not he could read it from the Question, that I was careful not to make any attack upon any sections of Her Majesty's Service. But has he seen, for example, amongst all the other Press; publicity, the article in the Economist, "How green are our diplomats"? I ask that, not because that is a nice title, but because of the evidence in that article that so much of what was going on in Cuba could even be found in foreign newspapers in Cuba, and therefore could have been communicated to those in this country. But apparently Her Majesty's Government found the event to be a complete surprise and went on supplying the Batista Government with arms.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, Her Majesty's Government and I personally are aware of the publication to which the noble Viscount has referred; and I would say at once that I am particularly glad I misunderstood what I thought were perhaps implications in the Question of the noble Viscount. I want to make it perfectly clear to your Lordships that we have no reason whatsoever to hold any feelings or to make any observations other than those which I have given in my original Answer. It might perhaps be relevant if I reminded your Lordships that the Americans in fact retained their military mission to General Batista up to the very end.
§ LORD HENDERSONMy Lords, the noble Marquess said in his first reply that there was no criticism to be made of the information supplied by Her Majesty's representatives abroad, including this particular case. Are we to understand, therefore, that Her Majesty's Government were properly informed as to the facts in Cuba but that the Foreign Office's judgment was quite different from that of Her Majesty's representative there?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, we received, as I have said, 789 full information of the situation and took careful note of it. There was no difference of opinion at all.
§ LORD LAWSONMy Lords, if we had full information in this country about the Cuban situation, may I ask the noble Marquess why it was that all the people of this country were bemused and misled by the statements that came from Cuba?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, I am not sure that I quite understand the noble Lord's question. Am I to understand him to say that we were bemused by the information that came from Cuba?
§ LORD LAWSONMy Lords, yes. I gathered that the noble Marquess said that we were fully informed in this country about the Cuban situation. What I am saying is that repeated statements that came from Cuba led people in this country to a certain view; and, contrary to what the noble Marquess said, the people of this country were misled utterly by the statements made in the Press generally as to what the situation was there.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, if I have understood the noble Lord's question correctly, I think I must say at once that the people in this country were not misled, and certainly they were not misled by Her Majesty's Government.
§ LORD LAWSONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Marquess whether he is aware that, in spite of the knowledge of the Government, the people in this country did not know what the position was in Cuba? It came to them as a very great surprise.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEI can assure the noble Lord that Her Majesty's Government did not withhold information.
§ VISCOUNT BRENTFORDMy Lords, may I ask the noble Marquess whether he is aware that those of us who have been actively engaged in commerce and industry in Cuba this past year know full well that the information available in Cuba was no greater than the information available to the public in England; that we did receive the utmost information from our representative there and are 790 continuing to do so; that he stands in the highest prestige in that country and that any suggestion of denigrating his efforts will only redound against the prestige and interests of this country?
§ EARL ATTLEEMy Lords, it would seem that the Government are rather frequently ill-informed. Matters seem to come as a surprise to them. It was the same in Iraq. Do Ministers read the telegrams?
§ THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (VISCOUNT HAILSHAM)My Lords, I must say that that comes ill from the noble Earl. We were most surprised at some of the trouble he 1st us in for the other day.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, is it not a fact that it was not in our minds—certainly it was not revealed to me—that there was a state of civil war for a considerable time before the actual event? Certainly this country was not fully informed, either here or there. Nor is there any explanation, I think, of why the Government went on supplying arms to Batista until almost the last moment, to the great annoyance of those who have now the upper hand in Cuba. Why was that?
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMMy Lords, if I may say so, the people of this country could have learned that there was a state of civil war from the newspapers, which is their proper source of information. If the noble Viscount did not draw the inference from the newspapers, I can only advise him to read them more carefully.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, why did not the Government draw the inference themselves from the newspapers and stop the supply of arms?
§ VISCOUNT HAILSHAMThat comes somewhat ill from a member of a Party which has been urging us to sell destroyers to Indonesia.
§ LORD HENDERSONMy Lords, the noble Marquess has said that the Americans retained their military mission there. But the Americans had cut off the supply of arms and we did not cut off the supply of arms, and now the noble Marquess has said that everybody knew that there was a civil war going on.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, there were two reasons for the cutting off of the supply of arms by America. One was that there had been a very powerful lobby by émigrés in the United States. That was one of the reasons, probably well known to your Lordships. The other reason was that there had been smuggling of arms on a very considerable scale, and it was decided by the Government of the United States of America that the best way of stopping smuggling was to stop the supply of arms to both sides. That was why an American embargo on arms was set up.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, we are wholly dissatisfied with the answers. I think the best thing to do is not to prolong this discussion any further but to raise it in the next Foreign Affairs debate.