§ 2.35 p.m.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are satisfied that all the present large long-range British and foreign turbo-jet airliners using London Airport have, when fully laden on take-off or on approach and landing, a sufficient safety margin having regard to the modern tendency of many aircraft operators to increase their loads to the maximum extent permitted by the aircraft certifying authorities of their various countries.]
§ THE PAYMASTER GENERAL (LORD MILLS)My Lords, take-off and landing safety requirements for the long-range turbo-jets using London Airport have been formulated after continuous intensive investigation by the United Kingdom, the United States, and by the International Civil Aviation Organisation. The present requirements are designed to ensure that they have an 3 adequate safety margin. The adequacy of these requirements is kept continuously under review by analysing the results of tests and of operating experience, and by photographic analysis of operational take-offs and landings.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, may I ask whether he is aware that some competent authorities are of the opinion that the requirements he has mentioned are not sufficient to ensure safety under present conditions?
§ LORD MILLSMy Lords, I can only say that if the noble Lord will give me the names of the competent authorities I will see that the information is passed on to my right honourable friend.
§ EARL HOWEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that the flying height is supposed to be, I believe, 1,000 feet when cruising over the country? Is he also aware that aeroplanes taking off from Heath Row, for example, go over adjacent areas at much less than that flying height? Is he also aware that we are told that that is because they are very heavy? They have a full load of fuel and perhaps passengers as well. But the fact remains that they come over at night, and it is quite impossible for children and others to sleep if they get this terrible noise—which it is at about 400 feet—at any hour from 11 o'clock at night till 2 o'clock in the morning.
§ LORD MILLSMy Lords, in answer to the noble Earl, I have no method of checking heights. I take it that they are checked. I have seen reports in the Press to the effect stated by the noble Earl, but the requirements are laid down; they have been agreed, and, as I have said, they are tested from time to time, and I can only assume that they are being observed.
§ EARL HOWEMay I ask the noble Lord whether he would go into it a little further and see whether, in fact, the requirements are being observed, and whether anything can be done? Perhaps nothing can be done; I do not know.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, is the Minister satisfied that the requirements laid down for take-off and landing at London Airport, Heath Row, are being observed by air lines?
§ LORD MILLSMy Lords, that is my information. I should like to repeat what I said: the adequacy of these requirements is kept continuously under review by analysing the results of tests and of operating experience, and by photographic analysis of operational take-offs and landings. I am told that that testing is continuous, and I can hardly imagine that it does not take into account the question of height.
LORD REAMy Lords, could the noble Lord say whether these tests are made by the interested companies running these aircraft or by Government Departments?
§ LORD MILLSMy Lords, the tests are made by the Air Registration Board and the Ministry of Aviation, so far as British tests are concerned.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, it is not a question primarily of British tests. Is it not a fact that a large number of these big jets tend to get overladen by the operators, and is this not a very dangerous practice?
§ LORD MILLSMy Lords, if aircraft were overladen, it would indeed be a dangerous practice, but I have no information, which the noble Lord apparently has, that they are overladen. As I have said, if he will be good enough to let me have the names of his authorities, I will certainly pursue the matter.
§ EARL HOWEMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that the machines complained of principally are foreign machines and not British machines?
§ LORD MILLSMy Lords, in reply to the noble Earl we are dealing with long-range turbo-jets, which are either British or American. The same tests and the same procedures are pursued in regard to American machines as in regard to British machines.