HL Deb 23 July 1958 vol 211 cc120-2
LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether a leading signalman in the Navy is in future to be called a leading tactical communication operator; and, if so, why.]

THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (THE EARL OF SELKIRK)

My Lords, the noble Lord is correct in his assumption. The purpose of the new title is to indicate more precisely the nature of the duties these ratings nowadays carry out. The Branch concerned considers the new names an improvement, and it can be compared with the change of the name from stoker to engineering mechanic. It brings them more into line with the terms used in civilian employment. The title of this rating is admittedly rather cumbersome when spoken in full, but it will normally be abbreviated in the letters "L.T.O."

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, does that mean that in future a naval officer will never make a signal but will operate a tactical communication? Is the First Lord aware that for centuries our sailors have been masters of terse and vigorous English? Will the Admiralty honour this tradition instead of wallowing in gutless verbosity?

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

My Lords, I think the noble Lord may rest assured that the Royal Navy will continue to make signals of all characters. I think the noble Lord may also be assured that the Royal Navy will continue to express itself in terse English, whether in terms of endearment or otherwise.

THE EARL OF DUNDEE

My Lords, will an admiral now be called a leading personnel operator?

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

I think the noble Earl will prove incorrect.

EARL ATTLEE

Have the sailors expressed themselves in terse English on this change?

THE EARL OF CORK AND ORRERY

My Lords, is this not a case of change for the sake of change—a policy from which, I am told by some of my noble friends, the Navy is suffering lately?

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

That is not so. I can give the noble Earl one other reason which I think is important. We have, of coarse, to consider the later civilian employment of sailors, and these words do make the position clearer. It is sometimes thought that a signalman is simply somebody who waves flags. The point is, that these words indicate that he is a highly specialised man of a much wider training and specialisation than that. I think that that is a point which must be borne in mind, even though, as I frankly admit, these particular words are indeed cumbersome.

EARL HOWE

My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether this definition of a signalman will be circulated to the Labour Exchanges; and, if so, will they understand it?

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

The Labour Exchanges will no doubt learn about it. What is important is that when people are being engaged for civil employment there is some idea of the very technical and complicated work which these men have learned during their period in the Service. This title gives a fuller picture than the term formerly used.

LORD CONESFORD

Why on earth should the word "signalman" mean a man who waves flags?

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

That I cannot answer but I believe it is generally understood to be the case—certainly it was the original function for which he was employed.

LORD REA

My Lords, when communications are made which are not tactical, who will be employed to make them?

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

Those communications which are not tactical will be made by a radio communication operator.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, if this change has not yet come into force, will the Admiralty reconsider it in order to meet the wishes of both Houses of Parliament? Finally, is my noble friend aware that this is not only not good English; it is not even tolerable Scots?

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

My Lords, I will certainly bear the noble Lord's point in mind, and in future, I will endeavour, in matters of this character, to take advantage of Lord Conesford's special knowledge of English.

LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYE

My Lords, if the First Lord is going to reconsider the matter, would he give an opportunity for another Question to be put to him before the matter is finally decided?

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

It is open to the noble Lord to put to me any question he likes.

LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYE

Would the First Lord undertake that the decision shall not be reached and then the House told afterwards, but that the House shall have an opportunity of asking if the Minister is ready to come to a decision?

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

My Lords, I am afraid I cannot do that. This decision has been reached and it has in fact been promulgated; that is the reason why the information is published. But I will certainly consider what has been said to-day.