SMALL-COAL-BURNING STOVES (Hansard, 16 December 1958)

§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALE
My Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ THE MINISTER OF POWER (LORD MILLS)
My Lords, my Department collaborates in the publication of a list of recommended solid fuel burning equipment. The design of grates and stoves capable of burning small coal with effective smoke reduction has had continuous attention in present circumstances. If a successful design is found it will be added to the list and suitably publicised.

§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALE
My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his Answer, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government will use some imagination in this matter, and whether he realises that if (shall I say?) 1 million or 5 million people were so far to change their habits as to use enclosed stoves like the Esse, the Cosy Stove and the Aga (and I may say that I have no interest in any of them), instead of open fires, which are quite out of date and most wasteful, then the problem of the mines would be largely solved, the air would be cleaner, the people would be warmer and a great contribution would be made towards the economy? May I ask the noble Lord whether he will set people to work on this problem?

§ LORD MILLS
My Lords, I suggest that all that is perfectly obvious. The Government are using their imagination; the Government have people working on the problem and it will be pursued with all vigour.

§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALE
My Lords, with respect to the noble Lord, is it not true that all that the Government are doing is to recommend stoves to an old-fashioned people who will not change their habits? Would Her Majesty's Government consider, for example, making a gift of 5 million stoves to the people? May I ask him whether it would not pay handsomely by getting this small coal used? Or, alternatively, will he ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to introduce a kind of personal investment allowance, so that when you put in a stove you get something off your tax?

§ LORD MILLS
My Lords, I think it is rather too much to ask me whether I will give away 5 million stoves; or, rather, whether the Government will do so. I should like notice of that question. But I can assure the noble Lord that the Government are fully seized of the 323 importance of this matter, and are not just waiting to recommend a suitable stove.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord the Minister of Power whether more intensive directions could be given for the help of the mining industry in this matter? Is he going to review what is outstanding now for nuclear electric power stations? I believe that he still has outstanding a scheme to spend £750 million which will put coal out of use in all new power stations. I understand that there is no other country in the world with our own native resources of fuel which is adopting nuclear power for electric power stations at anything like that rate. Will he have that matter revised, and give some hope of using our own resources first and not second to oil and third to nuclear power?

§ LORD BARNBY
My Lords, since the noble Viscount the Leader of the Opposition has strayed a good deal from the Question which was asked, would it be out of order to ask the noble Lord whether he can assure us that consideration is being given to the, I believe, authorised statements in the Press with regard to the large stocks of small coal? It has been urged that the price should be reduced, so that sales of this commodity, as of other commodities in full supply, might begin to reduce the stocks and a lead could be given. Otherwise it would appear that the Government themselves discourage price reductions to encourage the flow of trade.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, before the Minister replies, may I ask him what rate of purchase tax these stoves carry? If they do carry purchase tax, would he draw the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the advisability of a reduction which would then increase the sale of these stoves?

§ LORD MILLS
My Lords, in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, there is no purchase tax on these appliances. I have had no notice of a general debate on fuel, and I suggest that the questions of other noble Lords do not arise out of this Question.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH
Does that mean they are too difficult to answer?

LORD HAWKE
My Lords, may I ask whether there is any known make of stove on the market which will burn these surplus stocks of coal without causing an inordinate amount of smoke?

§ LORD MILLS
My Lords, in reply to the noble Lord's question, there are no inexpensive makes of stove on the market, but there are prototypes in existence which are now being fully tested. The importance of the matter is obvious.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH
My Lords, has the noble Lord observed that the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Fraser of Lonsdale, refers to thus helping the mining industry. I put a question to the noble Lord which would perhaps lead to a policy which would help the mining industry. Why cannot he answer?

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH RELATIONS (THE EARL OF HOME)
My Lords, if the noble Viscount the Leader of the Oppositoin would not mind my saying so, the reason my noble friend cannot answer is that it is not within the sphere of this Question.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH
I have just put the question.

THE EARL OF HOME
I know the noble Viscount has just put the question, but the Question on the Paper—and I think the whole House must stick to some rules in this matter—referred to stoves burning small coal. If the noble Viscount wishes to raise the whole question of oil versus coal, and the like, there are plenty of other opportunities.