ARUNDEL ESTATE BILL [H.L.] (Hansard, 1 May 1957)

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

My Lords, I was hoping that it might have been possible to have a little commendation of this Bill—which is of great importance as a Private Bill—from the Lord Chairman of Committees or someone in charge. One always welcomes the kind of Bill, or the kind of proposal without a Bill, which makes available to the public for visitation and pleasure such a grand place as the parks and grounds of the famous Arundel Castle. From that point of view, the proposals in the Bill are welcome, and I should very much favour them.

On the other hand, the legal proposals in the Bill, which I am bound to say are very difficult for me as a layman to follow—I am sure they have been carefully checked by the eminent Members of your Lordships' House who were on the special Committee dealing with the matter—make it clear that it is fundamental, from the point of view of those who are proposing the Bill, to break the entail. The only thing I can say about that is that there is an original Act of 1627 and the Patent—which is mentioned in the Bill—of some sixty years later, with regard to the hereditary position of the Earl Marshal of the Realm. I think it is perhaps likely to be argued in another place—as was argued in the case of the Mountbatten Bill some years ago—that a Bill of this kind is hardly suitable for 242 dealing with a matter which would strengthen by Statute the hereditary position of the Earl Marshal. But that is as may be.

I should have thought, myself, that it is necessary for us to say—at least for me to say, from this side of the House—that it surely cannot be taken as a fact in this House, on record for ever and ever, that the hereditary position of the Earl Marshal will remain, under whatever Government or whatever kind of régime the country may be working. There are many wonderful aspects of the office of Earl Marshal, which is filled with tradition and which has been excellently carried out by the present holder—of that there is not the slightest complaint or criticism. I think it is essential, in giving this Bill a Second Reading—and we shall not oppose it—to say that perhaps it will be looked at from another point of view in another place by those who have my general political outlook, and they may contend that we ought not by such a Bill to strengthen permanently by Statute, passed by this House, the position of hereditary Earl Marshal.

§ THE EARL OF HALIFAX

My Lords, before your Lordships give this Bill a Second Reading, there is perhaps a word that might be said in reply to the noble Viscount who has just addressed us. He has made, as he always does, a speech that commends itself to the House by its reasonableness and by its persuasive force, and I do not rise at all for the sake of entering the lists with him. Indeed, I rise only for the purpose of saying this. There would, no doubt, be other occasions, if such seemed desirable, when, the larger question which the noble Viscount has raised might properly be debated in this or another House of Parliament. In passing, however, I would suppose that it would not be within the power of this House, or of another House, to debate that question without the express permission of the Sovereign, having regard to the fact (I may be wrong in this) that the appointment of Earl Marshal is a matter which would clearly fall within the Royal Prerogative and, therefore, the Royal permission would be required for it to be debated. But that is not a matter which is immediately before your Lordships' House at the moment.

243 I wish only to make this observation. The noble Viscount knows as well as anyone else that this is not the only hereditary office within this Realm and in our Constitution which one section or other of our countrymen may find it difficult to accept in toto, but which all sections seem to combine in saying works pretty well on the whole. I would therefore hope that not only the noble Viscount opposite but his friends in another place also would be willing when the time came to allow the office of Earl Marshal, of the holder of which we speak this afternoon, as he has spoken, quite impersonally, to join that long list of offices, institutions and customs that may not be always completely defensible in theory, but are always eminently defensible in practice and which cumulatively add up to a volume of tradition and history that are, I think, the envy of the more intelligent citizens of the world. That is all that I would wish to say, because I do not think that the noble Viscount wishes to invite us to a general debate. I would hope that your Lordships, in the light of both the noble Viscount's speech and that which I have ventured to make, would allow the Bill to have a Second Reading.