§ 2.36 p.m.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that a site in Chelsea acquired by the London County Council before the war for use as a fire station is now being used by a Mr. Thomas Bruce as a car mart, notwithstanding the opposition of local residents and of the Chelsea Borough Council; on what date Mr. Bruce acquired his interest in the land; on what date he applied to the London County Council as planning authority for permission for the structural alterations which he has now made and for the change of use; and whether, when, and on what terms the London County Council gave him permission.]
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (THE EARL OF MUNSTER)My Lords, the answer to the first part of the Question is in the affirmative. The dates in question are respectively January 14, January 16, and March 25, 1957, all in this year. The following conditions have been attached to the permission:
- (1) It will be for a limited period expiring April 1, 1958;
- (2) A modified form of floodlighting must be provided to the Council's satisfaction; and this must: be switched off by 7.30 p.m.;
- (3) The King's Road frontage will be laid out as an ornamental garden;
731 - (4) No building or structure or erection will be erected or maintained on the site;
- (5) Vehicles will use only the Dove-house Street entrance, and the pedestrian access to King's Road will be reduced in width to 7 ft. 6 ins.;
- (6) No repairs will be carried out to vehicles on the site.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer and wish to ask him this further question. Does he realise that permission was not granted until yesterday; that the development has been carried out without any permission but with the knowledge and, presumably, the connivance of the planning authority who were this man's landlords? Is my noble friend further aware that the development conflicts with the development plan and is a matter of dispute between the planning authority and the local authority? In these circumstances, has his right honourable friend the power to take this matter over and consider the application himself?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERMy Lords, my right honourable friend is well aware that there is some dispute between the London County Council and the Chelsea Borough Council on this matter, but he would not be prepared to interfere. The reason is that the London County Council are the planning authority for the neighbourhood. I am aware that permission was granted yesterday by the London County Council, but I am not aware whether work took place on the site before the date the permission was granted.
§ LORD SALTERMy Lords, has the Minister not inquired whether—what is notoriously well known by anybody in that district—work had been proceeding on that site? Since the Borough Council obviously represent directly both the residents and the amenities most concerned, and in the circumstances elicited by my noble friend, is it not a case in which the Government might properly intervene?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERMy Lords, I do not think my right honourable friend would be inclined to intervene on a matter which concerns entirely the London County Council as planning authority for London.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, would my noble friend bring to the notice of his right honourable friend the Minister that the reason the London County Council installed this man here was to get rid of him in Stockwell where they had already commenced legal proceedings against him? Will my noble friend consider whether, in those circumstances, it is not clear that the London County Council did not bring to the consideration of this problem the matters which it was their duty as a planning authority to consider?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERMy Lords, I am not aware of all these details. Legislation lays down that the London County Council should be the planning authority for London, and my right honourable friend would not wish to intervene. And for my part, I should be very reluctant to see him do so.
§ LORD STRABOLGIMy Lords, may I ask the Government whether they do not agree that the huge floodlit advertisement hoarding on this site is also a great eyesore; and, if so, will they urge the local authority not to give permission for the erection of advertisements of this kind in places of particular architectural interest?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERMy Lords, I will draw the attention of my right honourable friend to that point. As I have said, these lights will be switched off at 7.30 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF LISTOWELMy Lords, I am sure that all those who are connected with the London County Council will be extremely grateful for the noble Earl's statement, which is not only correct but extremely important as a matter of principle. I am sure he agrees that the London County Council always go to the Minister when they are obliged by Statute to do so, and that when powers are conferred by Statute the Council should be allowed to exercise them without interference.
§ LORD SALTERMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl whether I correctly understood the position: that the Minister has powers under the legislation as it stands to intervene, but that as a matter of discretion decided in this case not to intervene?
§ THE EARL OF MUNSTERMy Lords, I think it is correct that my right honourable friend has powers to intervene, but he would not intervene except in circumstances of the gravest moment.
§ LORD SALTERMy Lords, are there not here circumstances that would justify special intervention, as my noble friend has brought out? In this case, the London County Council have obviously had in their mind other considerations than those they would have had in mind had there been an application from another proprietor for the use of this site in this way, in which case they would presumably have acted in a judicial spirit which they are hardly able to in the circumstances brought out by my noble friend.