HL Deb 13 March 1957 vol 202 cc517-24

2.43 p.m.

LORD TEVIOT rose to call the attention of Her Majesty's Government to the extent of the expenditure incurred by this country in manpower and in resources in the cause of freedom during the past half-century; to ask Her Majesty's Government if they will give an estimate as to how much money we have spent in the First World War, in the Second World War (including damage from bombing in this country) and in the defence of peace in the Middle East; and how much we owe and are paying in interest to other nations as a result of these conflicts; and to move for Papers.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, as my Motion is rather comprehensive and covers a good deal of ground I wish to make one or two quite short remarks in regard to certain of the people who may be implicated in what I am going to say. First, I want to say how great, I feel sure, is the admiration of everybody in this House and in the country for the bravery of the civilians and the way in which they stood up to the bombing during the wars. There is another remark I wish to make which is relevant to what I shall say later on and which I am sure will be agreed to by noble Lords who have taken part in the wars—namely, that "Tommy Atkins" is the kindest hearted fellow in the world. Often, one of the great difficulties that we officers had in the middle of a battle was to see to it that when he took prisoners he was not too nice to them and did not give them the opportunity of getting away. Noble Lords will readily remember that the first thing that happened was that out came a cigarette and our soldiers seemed to have the greatest sympathy for their prisoners. That is the real spirit of the British service man.

My Lords, the Government and we as a nation, have had pretty rough handling in the last few months. Few nations and few other people seem to have a good word to say for what we have done in the past, what we are doing now and what we are planning to do in the future. I feel that the record of this country is gigantic, in that in the First World War we saved the world from the Kaiser, in the Second World War from Hitler, and now, in my view, we have done a grew service in what I would describe as the Suez episode which some of our own countrymen have criticised severely.

If your Lordships will look at the figures of the numbers of people involved in these wars and episodes, you will find that I am not far wrong when I say that we were the only nation in the world which was 100 per cent. in the war, whatever war we fought. I will give your Lordships figures of the casualties and the sacrifices we made in every sense of the word. I want to take this opportunity of saying how grateful I am to the War Office in particular, and to the Royal Air Force (or as they were originally called, the R.F.C.), for the information they have given me in regard to figures. I do not say that the figures are absolutely correct, but to within a small degree they are approximately so. Have we not every reason to be proud of this record? We have had no gratitude from people who ought to be grateful to us. I thought it was about time that somebody in your Lordships' House got up and, if I may use the word, "bucked" a bit about our record in the last forty to fifty years. That is what I propose to do to-day.

Of course, these events occurred before the time of some young people. I only hope that some of the things that I say will sink in, and will let then know how proud they ought to be of our country for its gigantic and impressive record. I am not talking only of ourselves; when I say "our" I mean the Commonwealth as well, because we are closely knit together. We have fought together and we have clone everything we can to support the Commonwealth and Empire.

Just to give your Lordships a sort of general idea—it is strange how one forgets about these operations and does not realise the gigantic size of them—I propose, as briefly as I can, to read out some of the figures. Let us take the casualties for the Royal Flying Corps and the Royal Air Force. In the First World War these were 9,650 killed and about 6,000 wounded. Royal Air Force casualties in the Second World War, 1939–45, were: 73,986 killed and 23,348 wounded. In the Suez episode the figures were one missing, presumed killed, and one wounded; and in Cyprus, 11 killed and 29 wounded. The figures for the Royal Flying Corps and the Royal Air Force alone are a pretty good indication of what we did in those two wars.

Now I come to the Royal Navy and the Royal Marines. In the First World War the casualties were 34,654 killed and 5,158 wounded. In addition, casualties in the Royal Naval Division were 8,590 killed and 20,166 wounded, making a total of 43,244 killed and 25,324 wounded, In the Second World War the figures were 51,598 killed and 14,697 wounded. In Cyprus and Suez the figures are, of course, quite small. I now come to the terrible figures, those of the War Office, for what I may call the "Tommy Atkins Army". Without going into details, in the First and Second World Wars our total casualties were 2,760,301–855,361 killed and nearly 2,000,000 wounded.

I do not think it is a bad thing for us to think about that and to be proud that we, a small nation, should have been able to suffer those terrific casualties and at the same time remain the great nation that we are in the world. I have a pamphlet, sent to me only a few days ago, which says we have no reason to blush and hang our heads at the memory of the Suez Campaign. I entirely agree with that. In the last few hours almost, something has happened there which demonstrates, at any rate to me, that it will turn out that we were perfectly right in what we did.

Now let me come to the financial side of this subject. That is perfectly colossal. What is called Defence Expenditure, from 1939 to 1946 was about £29,000 million. Our defence expenditure in the First World War was £9,345 million. Loans to Dominions and Allies amounted to £1,800 million odd. The figure for changes in the external position, between 1939 and 1945 in respect of realisation of external capital assets, et cetera (I will not go into details), is £4,198 million. In the 1914–18 war, loans to Allies amounted to £1,800 million odd, and borrowings abroad to £1,300 million odd. These are staggering figures, and yet, somehow or other, we have been able to survive all this.

Let us look, for a moment, at the damage to property from 1939 to 1945. Physical destruction on land amounted to £1,500 million; to shipping (including cargoes) £700 million; and internal disinvestment, £900 million. With external disinvestment of £4,198 million, these figures give a total of £7,300 million at 1945 prices, equivalent, roughly speaking, to 25 per cent. of our pre-war national wealth. The figures for the 1914–18 war were: shipping (including cargoes) £540 million; physical destruction on land and miscellaneous items, £30 million.

There are other items which I could give the House, but I believe I have shown your Lordships enough for you to realise what we have been through, and I do not believe that to-day we have completely recovered from the situation created by these two wars and the Suez episode. I felt, therefore, and have felt for some time, that it would not be a bad thing to have a short talk about this subject and to face up to what we have been through. I want to mention one or two things which, I hope your Lordships will agree, do not represent an exaggerated point of view. If your Lordships will think just for a moment about the nations who benefited by all these terrific undertakings of ours, I wonder whether you will consider, as I do, that those nations have not shown any great gratitude to us for what we did. For instance, in the Second World War we were fighting alone for two years and, as your Lordships are aware, we spent something like £2,000 million in that time buying war weapons with which to fight for the freedom of the world. All that has happened in what seems to me (perhaps being rather an old man) the short space of forty odd years.

I know that I shall not be agreed with in what I am about to say now, but I look upon what I have called the Canal episode as a tremendously courageous undertaking; and, as I have already said, every day something happens to demonstrate how right we were—and that has been particularly the case in the last 48 hours. We must be realistic. What is the use of thinking that we are going to get straightforward dealing from anyone who breaks contracts, treaties and national obligations; who snaps his fingers at truth, honesty and justice, and who uses propaganda to spread false information and lies about us? We must counter all this to the utmost of our ability. This is not a matter for laughter. A noble Lord opposite seems to think that it is rather amusing. I am sorry he does. I do not. We must maintain our historic prestige, because it is a great one. No other nation in the world can stand up to that record. Our enemies seize on every outrageous rumour or lie coming from any foreign source, yet when some hitter information resulting from enemy lies is refuted on the highest authority, by men like Field-Marshal Sir John Herding and by judges of our courts after investigation which shows these rumours to be fabrications and quite untrue, there is not always the same readiness to accept the rebuttal.

Now I am coming to something which I shall not be liked for saying. There are certain individuals in this country who do not seem to believe our own people; who prefer to put some credence in what is said by our enemies. Just imagine, if we were to hear that in Egypt certain things were being said about the Egyptian Government such as are being sad here about our Government, how pleased we should be! To my mind, there is no doubt that some of the things that have been said in this country have given encouragement to those who are doing everything they can to work against us. I want to take every opportunity that I can to uphold that great record which we have achieved in war, our great record of courage, integrity and generosity to our enemies. Of all those things I am proud, and I take every opportunity of emphasising them, feeling, as I do, that there is no doubt whatever that what I say in regard to the reputation of my country is absolutely true. When. I say "my country" I mean, as I have said before, the whole of the Commonwealth and Empire, hound together, as it is, with an unbreakable spirit of loyalty and devotion—a spirit which has been shown over and over again during the last forty years. My Lords, that is all I have to say. I have wanted for some time to say what has been in ray heart and mind on this subject, and now I have done it. I beg to move for Papers.

3.6 p.m.

THE MINISTER OF EDUCATION (VISCOUNT HAILSHAM)

My Lords, it would appear that what the noble Lord, Lord Teviot, has said has won such universal assent that no noble Lord is to be found to contradict it. In those circumstances, I hardly imagine that my noble friend will desire me to comment at length, on behalf of the Government, upon his speech. Indeed, it would be difficult to do so without embarking upon a major disquisition on the history of British policy in the last forty years. Nor do I wish, by anything I say, to provoke an impromptu debate on the recent history of the Middle East. I imagine, with my noble friend, that current events will in the long run prove the best commentary upon that topic. And I should rather fancy that, as time goes on, the correctness of some of the appreciations which were made here would stand the test of criticism better than some of the appreciations that were made elsewhere. At all events, these things are now being developed upon the great stage of world affairs, and I do not think that I should improve them by a speech in your Lordships' house.

I could not but reflect, while the noble Lord was speaking, upon a number of different topics. In the first place, I would have said that he had, if anything, underestimated the sacrifices of this country over a generation and a half. For instance, his figures, while they were accurate, included no separate assessment of Merchant Marine or civil casualties in this country daring the last war. Both of those would have to be taken into account as part of the gigantic sacrifices we made. We should have to add to them, in tribute to our Commonwealth friends in both conflicts, the sacrifices which they made, coming from their different parts of the world. I do not think that the present occasion is a profit able one on which to develop either the figures or the facts which will be deeply written upon your Lordships' minds and hearts.

The phrase which came into my mind, as the noble Lord developed his argument, was a saying of John Milton's to the effect that "When God has some great thing to attempt, he sends for one of his Englishmen to do it." That was a remark which was made when our country was in the earlier phases of its great career upon the stage of history, but I do not think it has become less true in the course of time, for there is indeed something in the nature of the destiny to which we have been committed that time and again has rendered us in a real sense, as I believe, protagonists of humanity, not only in the last forty years but in the last 500 or more years.

It is, I suppose, that being, as I have said in your Lordships' House, the largest of the small Powers and the smallest of the Great Powers, we have a dual rôle to fulfil, for whenever someone has set himself up to be a tyrant, to dominate the world in the context of which we have lived, we have always set ourselves up against him, cost what it may. Again, that is true not in the past forty years alone, but right back, at least to the time when Lord Howard of Effingham and Sir Francis Drake defeated the Spanish Armada. On the other side, we have been the defender of something as important and not less tangible, the trading community of the world, so easily beset by land Powers who often prefer the assertion of their own rights and sovereignty to the rights of contract and to good faith between the Powers, who are eager to exploit the reluctance of more peaceful nations to employ the terriffic strength which lies at their disposal and, therefore, are able to secure by petty acts of piracy a temporary advantage from them and from mankind. We have learned over our history that such conduct seldom pays in the long run. We have lived to bury many tyrants, great and small; and the small usually end more pitifully and more rapidly than the great. We can afford to await the outcome of contemporary events in the confidence which is born of our great history.

I do not know that there is much more I can usefully say on this occasion. My noble friend's patriotism and depth of feeling were apparent. I would say to him, in conclusion, that my own reading of our modern European history has been that, when Britain has been strong, Europe has been peaceful and prosperous. When Britain has been weak, Europe and the world have been torn by divisions and afflicted by the misfortunes of war.

LORD TEVIOT

My Lords, I must thank my noble friend for his really fine speech on this important subject. I would remind him that I did mention shipping losses, though I did not have available the figures to which he referred. In regard to the Commonwealth, of course when I say "our" country, that embraces the Commonwealth and Empire. I only hope that some of the things that my noble friend has said will go through the country and reach, particularly, many people who perhaps do not realise the situation; and I am full of hope that perhaps a word or two of what I said will do the same. I thank my noble friend for his reply and beg leave to withdraw my Motion.

Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.