HL Deb 25 June 1957 vol 204 cc348-57

6.15 p.m.

Order for the Day for the Second Reading Read.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT KILMUIR)

My Lords, the object of this Bill is to make certain changes in the law which are necessary in order that the United Kingdom may be able to ratify four Conventions drawn up by an International Conference held in Geneva in 1949. I am glad to be able to say that the representatives of this country played a useful part in negotiating these agreements. The agreements, of course, have been signed on behalf of the United Kingdom, but they still await ratification. Your Lordships will find the Conventions set out in the Schedules to the Bill, and I hope that this will be found of convenience for reference.

May I briefly explain what they are? The first deals with the amelioration of the condition of the wounded and sick in armed forces in the field, and is a revision of the Geneva Convention on the same subject of July, 1929. The second one deals with the amelioration of the condition of wounded, sick and shipwrecked members of armed forces at sea, and is a revision of the tenth Hague Convention of October, 1907. The third one deals with the treatment of prisoners of war, and is a revision of a Convention concluded at Geneva in July, 1939. The fourth one is a new Convention, and deals with the protection of civilian persons in time of war. We now have in these Conventions a comprehensive and up-to-date code of rules for the protection of these four classes of the victims of war, replacing the older codes in the light of experience of what is needed, and containing new material that appeared desirable and useful if the Conventions were to be as comprehensive as possible. The Conventions set out in a large number of provisions rules of conduct for the parties, and these rules are in accordance with the highest demands of humanity. While there may be room for discussion on points of detail or interpretation, no enlightened nation would wish to dissent from the fundamental principles on which they are based.

I should make it clear at this stage that the great majority of the provisions of the Conventions deal with matters of administration and organisation and, therefore, do not require legislation. Many of them can be given effect under powers already available. May I here make the suggestion (although I am entirely at the service of my colleagues and noble Lords who wish to deal with any point that is in the Conventions—and I shall be pleased to give any explanation if they will write to me or come and see me) that it would perhaps be convenient for the-Purpose of our discussions if we limited ourselves, as far as possible, to the Bill that is before us; and that I propose to do.

I ought to say that Her Majesty's Government have already indicated, in answer to an inquiry from the President of the International Red Cross, that we accept the Conventions and have every intention of applying their conditions, should the occasion arise. Before we can complete the formal process of ratification, however, it is necessary to make certain amendments in our law; and this, as I have said, is the purpose of the Bill. The necessity arises because certain matters dealt with in the Conventions cannot be provided for by administrative action or under existing powers. I should like to say that we have carefully examined all four of the Conventions and are satisfied of our ability to give effect to their provisions, apart from the matters dealt with in this Bill. If Parliament agrees to this legislation, we shall therefore be in a position formally to ratify the Conventions.

There was one reservation in regard to our signature to the Convention of 1949, and that was in regard to Article 68 of the Convention. I need only tell the noble Viscount who leads the Opposition that I entirely agree with the reservation which his Government made, and we can go into it at a later stage if any point is raised upon it. If I may summarise the provisions of the Bill under three headings, they are as follows. The first provision is for the punishment of those who commit what are called "grave breaches" of the Conventions. The second provision is for the rights of persons protected by the Conventions; the third is the prevention of the misuse of the emblems of the Red Cross and other corresponding emblems.

May I first say a word about the Punishment of persons who commit grave breaches of the Conventions. The grave breaches are the acts described in Article 50 of the Sick and Wounded. Convention, set out in the First Schedule to the Bill at page 42, and the corresponding provisions in the Conventions set out in the other Schedules. These are referred to in Clause 1 (1) of the Bill. The acts are breaches of the Conventions involving (a) the wilful killing, serious ill-treatment and certain other kinds of misconduct in relation to persons protected by the Conventions; and (b) in relation to property protected by the Conventions, extensive destruction and appropriation not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly. These are acts which are universally agreed to be reprehensible and punishable.

The Conventions require the parties either to try in their own courts persons accused of these offences, wherever the breaches are committed and regardless of the nationality of the accused, or else to hand them, over to another party to the Convention for trial. As noble Lords will see, we hake dealt with this by making the offences felonies and providing that they shall be triable in the United Kingdom wherever and by whomsoever the offences were committed. This is an unusual extension of our jurisdiction, but it is made necessary by the special circumstances against which we are providing.

As I have told your Lordships, the second matter with which we have to deal is to ensure that prisoners of war and civilian protected persons—that is to say, enemy aliens and certain other classes of aliens—interned in the United Kingdom in time of war, in the event of their being tried for criminal offences, have certain rights and facilities which are required by the Conventions. These are additional to the rights already secured to anyone tried under our law, and they are necessary because of the special circumstances in which the accused may find himself. Your Lordships will see that Clauses 2 to 5 deal with these matters.

Clause 2 gives effect to the requirements of Article 104 of the Prisoners of War Convention, which is to be found at page 79 of the Bill, and the second and third paragraphs of Article 71 read with Article 126 of the Civilian Convention, as your Lordships will find in the Fourth Schedule, at pages 113 to 131. In accordance with these Articles, this clause provides that a trial of a prisoner of war or a trial of a protected internee for certain offences shall not proceed until it is proved that twenty-one days' notice has been given to the protecting Power and, if the accused is a prisoner of war, to the accused himself and to the prisoner's representative. A prisoner's representative is either a comrade who is chosen to help him or the senior officer in the prisoner of war camp. It is a useful and effective provision.

Clause 3 gives effect to the provisions of the second and third paragraphs of Article 105 of the Prisoners of War Convention, which your Lordships will find at page 80, and also to provisions in all the Conventions dealing with trials of "grave breaches." It ensures the legal representation of persons in the protected categories, or accused of "grave breaches" tried before our courts. If neither the accused nor the protecting Power has appointed a legal representative the court must do so. Clause 4 is made necessary by the provisions of the second paragraph of Article 74 of the Civilian Convention as applied by Article 126. It provides that the time within which a person in the protected categories must enter his appeal shall not begin to run until notice has been given to the protecting Power. Although the Prisoner of War Convention does not contain similar provisions, we have thought it right to insert it. Subsections (1) and (2) of Clause 4 deal with trial by civil courts. The remaining subsection deals with trial of prisoners of war. Clause 5 allows effect to be given to the second paragraph of Article 103 of the Prisoners of War Convention, which your Lordships will see at page 79, and the fourth paragraph of Article 118 of the Civilian Convention which provide that periods spent in custody before trial shall count towards the sentence.

The third matter which is dealt with by the Bill is the prevention of the use, except as permitted in the Conventions, of the Red Cross and the equivalent emblems of the Red Crescent and the Red Lion and Sun, which are used for the same purposes by certain countries. The Wounded and Sick Convention also provides for the protection of the Swiss Cross. It seems to me that these are perfectly straightforward protections. If my noble friend Lord Woolton, in his position, has any special points, I shall be glad to consider them, but I do not think I need go through the details of the Bill on what is a fairly simple and simply stated point.

I want to make it clear that this Bill does not purport to be a general code for dealing with war criminals. Nor do the Conventions—indeed, many of the most heinous of war crimes are outside their scope. The fact that these Conventions have been signed and have been ratified by many countries, and by this country, as they will be after this legislation is passed, will be a great step forward in ensuring humane treatment for the non-combatant and also for combatants who are wounded, sick or taken prisoner in time of war. The Conventions cannot cover every point, but they do show at what we are aiming, and we can make further provisions if it is necessary. I am happy to have the opportunity to-day of recommending this Bill. I hope that your Lordships will give, it a Second Reading and will help it on its way, with the dominant purpose in our minds that it will enable this country to ratify these Conventions and take its proper place in supporting them in the eyes of the world. I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time.

Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

6.30 p.m.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

My Lords, I should like to say at the outset that we are greatly obliged to the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack for the careful explanation he has given of the Bill, which covers the proposal to ratify the four Conventions that he has mentioned. I think we should out on record from the Opposition here that we owe a debt to the noble Earl, Lord Woolton, for his efforts to bring forward this ratification instead of letting it remain for so long in abeyance, because it is going to be a step forward if this country, still with its position of influence in the world, becomes one of the fairly early ratifying nations.

The difficulty about dealing with some points that may arise in your Lordships' minds about the details of some of the Conventions has, I think, to be faced in this way—I have had the opportunity of consulting with my noble and learned friend Earl Jowitt upon the matter—that whilst every one of us may not agree with every clause or sub-clause of a Convention and may not think it is going to do the best thing in the right direction or in the right way, nevertheless we can all be convinced that the general objective of the Convention is good, and that the actual provisions of the Convention are progressive as compared with what has been the practice in the past. We cannot deal with the adoption and the ratification of a Convention against the Conventions themselves—that is to say, we either accept them as they are or we refuse to ratify them. If we are prepared to take them as they are, then we ratify and become one of the nations who are really doing their job in trying to move forward in the matter.

I was going to say a word or two about the question of the changes in powers in trying in our courts certain of the offences committed by persons of other nationalities; but after what the noble and learned Viscount the Lord Chancellor has said there is no need to do anything of that kind. I feel most strongly, and I am sure your Lordships' House will feel, that whilst we know that when a great and savage war occurs Conventions are often overridden, nevertheless Conventions have played their part when they have been almost universally observed by those engaged in the strife. Looking at this Bill and the Conventions which this draft Statute will cover, and listening to what the Lord Chancellor has said by way of explanation, I am sure it must be in our hearts and minds that if these Conventions had been ratified before the last great war a great many of the horrible actions that occurred and which disgusted humanity so much might never have been perpetrated at all. So I think we are taking a good step in the right direction in seeking for this ratification, and we are indebted to those Members of your Lordships' House who have urged that it be expedited.

6.34 p.m.

THE EARL OF WOOLTON

My Lords, this is a Bill of such importance to this country and to its prestige in the world that I have, as the noble Viscount, Lord Alexander of Hillsborough, has just said, rather pressed upon Her Majesty's Government the importance of bringing it forward as soon as possible—I scarcely dare say "at an early stage" because it is a little late for any such observation. But we are extremely grateful to the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack for the speech that he has just made.

It is obvious from the delay that has taken place that the Government have been faced with considerable difficulties. There can be no doubt about it that their intentions throughout have been such as would have been approved by your Lora-ships. But there are complications in the making of the laws of one country—and, after all, that is the main purpose of the Bill that the noble and learned Viscount has introduced to-day—and making those laws fall in with the wishes of some sixty-nine other countries. By its nature that is a difficult thing to do, but it is a particularly difficult thing to do when you are dealing with problems arising from the war. If the noble and learned Viscount will allow me to say so, Her Majesty's Government have indeed been singularly fortunate in this respect in having the present Lord Chancellor as their senior legal adviser, for surely there is nobody in the whole world more acutely seized of the problems that arise from the misdemeanours of war than Lord Kilmuir, who made for himself a lasting reputation in the Nuremberg trials.

My Lords, nothing would be easier than to submit to your Lordships long arguments as to whether these changes are sufficient to meet what may well be regarded as the just and almost universal demands both of retribution and of justice. When one considers that, whatever the gravity of the offence against humanity may be, the culpable person can, under the provisions of Clause 1 of this new Bill, only suffer life imprisonment, it might well make one wonder whether the Government have not been too lenient, on the ground either of mercy or of political expediency, with culprits whom the whole world would condemn. I take some consolation from the fact that, as the noble and learned Viscount said in the speech that he has just made, these provisions are not the only means whereby such people as those whom the noble and learned Viscount prosecuted after the last war can be brought to justice. I am bound to say that I do not think that any potential offenders of the future, if, unhappily, such there be, will be encouraged in their malpractices or get any consolation from the fact that under this Bill no greater penalty can fall upon them than a lifetime of imprisonment in which to reflect upon the enormities of their crime. Perhaps, indeed, it may be true that such a prolonged agony of conscience might be a punishment of greater severity than a quick death.

I would venture—I hope perhaps unnecessarily—to plead that we should not allow such considerations to hinder us in giving a speedy approval to this Bill. National honour is involved and is damaged by delay. This action of the Government has already been long delayed. We must not again fall into the ignominious position that we were in in Korea and in Egypt, when we had to announce that we would abide by the terms of these Conventions although Parliament had not had time to ratify them. I know that the Parliamentary timetable is very crowded. I know that this Bill has been introduced into this House at this time because Her Majesty's Government have realised that there is a desire in all sections of your Lordships' House that the position should be made clear to the world. Therefore, I venture, most respectfully, to suggest to the House that we should give every facility, not only tonight but in the subsequent considerations of the Bill, so as to try to get it through during this Session of Parliament.

The fact that the Government present to us in one Bill not only a Bill amending the law but the detailed Conventions is, I think, sufficient indication of their desire to adhere unreservedly to those Conventions that have already been signed on Executive level. The Conventions will therefore become a part of the law of the land. There are in this legislation points that I would particularly commend to your Lordships. The prisoner, whatever the crimes with which he is charged, is to be given the privileges not only of English law but of English procedure. He will be defended, and not only he but justice will benefit from the high traditions of the practice of the English Bar.

Your Lordships will understand what satisfaction and gratitude I, as Chairman of the British Red Cross, feel in seeing the use and definition of the Red Cross and similar emblems of other nations given statutory status. The Red Cross has proved of immeasurable value in previous wars and its sign is worthy of the protection of English law. I am honoured to be allowed to support this Bill, and I should like to express my personal gratitude to the Leader of the House and to the noble and learned Viscount on the Woolsack for having brought it in at this stage.

6.42 p.m.

LORD McNAIR

My Lords, I had intended to make a few remarks upon these Conventions and the Bill, but having regard to the warm reception which the Bill has had and to the clear and helpful exposition of the contents of the Conventions and the Bill which the noble and learned Viscount, the Lord Chancellor, has given us, it seems quite unnecessary that I should say anything more. I feel sure that your Lordships will accept the assurance of the noble and learned Viscount, to the effect that this Bill is adequate to enable Her Majesty's Government to ratify these Conventions; and, that being so. I sincerely hope that your Lordships' House will do everything in its power to expedite the passage of this Bill through this House.

6.43 p.m.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, after the kind tenor of the speeches that have been made on this Bill, there is little left for me to say. I should like to say, not in return, but because I feel it so strongly, that, apart altogether from myself, it is at once typical, and the pride of your Lordships' House, that we should find a Bill of this kind welcomed for the Opposition by one like the noble Viscount, Lord Alexander of Hillsborough, who during so many anxious years of war was in charge of one of the great Fighting Services of the Crown, and then welcomed by the noble Earl, Lord Woolton, not only as himself, which means so much to his friends, but as Chairman of the British Red Cross; and, lastly, welcomed by my noble and learned friend Lord McNair, one of the greatest international lawyers of the twentieth century. I do not think any Minister in charge of a Bill could ask for a better or more distinguished reception, and I am very grateful to noble Lords for the help they have given.

On Question, Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.