§ 3.9 p.m.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, I beg to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government if they will state the estimated cost of the British Transport Commission's railway development scheme based upon current money values, costs and prices.]
LORD FAIRFAX OF CAMERONMy Lords, I regret that I cannot add to the Answer given by my noble friend Lord Mancroft on July 23. As he then said, the British Transport Commission are now making a re-assessment of the cost of their railways modernisation programme and no figures are yet available.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, am I to understand from the noble Lord that the British Transport Commission have no budgetary control audit to check the cost progress of the railways modernisation scheme which, so far as one can understand, was based on 1954 money values, costs and prices? May I ask him whether he is aware that in June last the British Transport Commission announced that one-third of this £1,200 million scheme was either in progress or had been authorised; and, 223 further, whether that was based upon 1954 costs and prices, or upon current prices, or whether it was authorised with no costing knowledge at all?
LORD FAIRFAX OF CAMERONMy Lords, in reply to the noble Lord, I would ask him to remember that this is a big, important and intricate question, to which, as my noble friend Lord Man-croft said last week, not all the normal business practices would apply. In some ways it is different from ordinary business questions. It is true that the scheme is well ahead of schedule, but I am afraid that I am not able to tell the noble Lord upon what the work already done is based.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, would the noble Lord convey to his right honourable friend the Minister that it was upon those facts and figures that he persuaded Parliament to underwrite the whole cost of the railways modernisation scheme? All I am asking is whether the British Transport Commission follow what is the common practice of all industry: that is, to have a very close budgetary control on the cost of all developments, in the inflationary period in which we live.
LORD FAIRFAX OF CAMERONMy Lords, in reply to the noble Lord, I should like to tell him that it is the responsibility of the British Transport Commission to balance their accounts, I should say, to break even by 1961–62; and that duty is in no way affected.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMay I ask the noble Lord, who talks about 1965, whether we are to go on as we are, and no cost investigation is going to take place, day by day, week by week, and year by year? If so, the liability which the State will have to meet in 1965 will soar far above any of the figures that have been given to Parliament.
LORD FAIRFAX OF CAMERONMy Lords, I can only say that the reassessment is in progress, and I am afraid that I cannot add to that reply.
§ EARL HOWEMy Lords, I do not know whether the noble Lord listened to the one o'clock news, but if he did, I wonder whether his answer refers to canals as well as to the railways, or only to the railways.