HL Deb 23 July 1957 vol 205 cc34-5

2.42 p.m.

LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTH

My Lords, I beg to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will state the estimated cost of the British Transport Commission's railway development scheme based upon current money values, costs and prices.]

LORD MANCROFT

My Lords, the Railway Modernisation Programme was an outline plan covering the fifteen-year period up to 1970. Since it was published early in 1955, its scope and timing have been materially affected by certain technical decisions of major importance and by the obligation placed on the Commission in the White Paper of last year to break even by 1961 or 1962. The programme has got under way much sooner than was originally planned and is now well ahead of schedule. The effect of these factors and of the level of prices on the timing and cost of the programme is now being re-assessed by the Commission, and I regret that I am not yet able to give the House any revised figures of cost.

LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTH

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that his Answer is not in conformity with what I should have thought was the practice of a business concern like the British Transport Commission? Is he aware that two years ago the estimated cost of this modernisation plan was £1,200 million? I should have thought that perhaps the noble Lord would agree with me that the British Transport Commission Costs Department would have kept abreast of the times by having up-to-date figures. If I put down a Question in a week's time, could the noble Lord tell me whether it would be in the region of just under or just over £2,000 million?

LORD MANCROFT

No, my Lords; I can do neither of those things. As the noble Lord has said, the figure was, admittedly, originally £1,200 million. I should be very surprised indeed, but gratified, to learn that that figure had gone down, but I cannot tell the noble Lord to what figure it has been raised. If he puts down a Question I will certainly do my best to answer it. Perhaps I can console him by saying that my right honourable friend the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation intends to make a statement in another place tomorrow which may be of some assistance to the noble Lord.

EARL ATTLEE

My Lords, in view of the continued fall in the value of money under this Government, is it possible to make any estimate for the future?

LORD MANCROFT

My Lords, it is no more possible to make an estimate than it was in the days when the noble Earl was himself Prime Minister.

LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTH

My Lords, may I press the noble Lord? While thanking him for his courteous reply, I think he will agree with me that the public—the taxpayers—have the right to be kept informed of the new values of projects of this gigantic size. As the estimated cost two years ago was £1,200 million, it should be within the realms of possibility for the House to be given what is the British Transport Commission's estimate of cost based on modern prices.

LORD MANCROFT

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Lucas of Chilworth is perfectly right, and the Commission hope very shortly to be able to give this figure. But, as he will appreciate, there have been changes more widesweeping than ordinary business expects to meet in its day-to-day affairs. It does not detract in any way at all from the Commission's desire to be completely frank with the owners or the taxpayers.

LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTH

My Lords, if I put down a Question, would the noble Lord do his best to give the House that figure?

LORD MANCROFT

I will do my best. I cannot promise any more than that.