ARMY (CONDITIONS OF ENLIST MENT) BILL (Hansard, 22 July 1957)

§ LORD MANCROFT
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do resolve itself into Committee on the Bill.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, I should like to say a few words on the Question that the House do resolve itself into Committee on the Bill. I have been giving some consideration to the point I raised with the noble Lord, Lord Mancroft, as to when a statement could most conveniently be made regarding the intention of the Government on retaining the statutory powers of the 1947 Act and any Amendments to that Act which may have occurred since then. This Bill is entitled: An Act to make further provision as to the transfer to the reserve or determination of service of persons serving in the army for a term of twenty-two years. The general position of Army reserves has been very much affected by the procedure which has been followed concerning the National Service enlistments under 27 the 1947 Act. We all hope that the voluntary recruiting effort which has been outlined to Parliament will be successful, but I, for one, can never feel free in my mind of the dangers which might arise if we failed to get the necessary numbers of recruits to fulfil the commitments which we must meet at all times in the Commonwealth. I do not want to see the country without powers, apart from entirely re-enacting legislation, to maintain both our Forces with the Colours and any Reserves considered by the authorities to be essential.
Is it, therefore, quite clear that it is not intended to repeal finally the National Service Act? I ask that because it has been stated over and over again that after 1960 no more recruits will be called up under National Service, and that that particular form of service will have ended by 1962. Does that mean that in the meantime you are going to repeal the National Service Act; or are you going to hold it in reserve, in case there is a failure to reach the minimum defence requirements from the voluntary processes which are now being put into operation?

§ LORD MANCROFT
My Lords, the answer to the interesting point the noble Viscount has made is that there will be no repeal of the National Service Acts, since their powers will be needed for the next few years both to call up young men reaching the age of 18 before December 31, 1958—though their entry into the forces may be delayed up to two years—and to provide for the continuance of many powers under the Act required for National Service men actually called up in the Forces or undergoing their Reserve period of liability. On the other hand, it is not proposed to give extended effect to the existing powers in Section 1 of the current Act to call up boys who have reached the age of 18 beyond the date of December 31, 1958, to which Section 61 of the current Act was extended by the Order in Council of 1953.
Therefore, the situation is this. Naturally, we all hope that the recruiting policy of the Government will bring the men in. My right honourabie friend the Minister of Defence in his White Paper said: If this expectation"— 28 that is, to maintain the forces by Regular recruitment— after the end of 1952 should be falsified by events. Parliament would have to consider the action to be taken. That means that the present Act runs out if we fail—as we very much hope we shall not, and we are not countenancing failure—to get the Regular recruits, and then we should have to come to Parliament again. I hope that answers the question of the noble Viscount.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, I rather gathered from the first part of the statement that what the Government are really doing is to suspend the operation of Section 1 of the Act. They are not repealing the Act at the moment.

§ LORD MANCROFT
No, it is not quite that. The Act will run out of its own accord and could not be called into use again for the purpose which we are now discussing. We should have to come back to Parliament for new powers.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER or HILLSBOROUGH
Where is that cancellation of the powers of the Act in the Statute? Is it in a draft Statute? I am not at all sure about this question of how the Statute runs out.

§ LORD MANCROFT
I have not the Statute with me to answer the noble Viscount's question, but I think what happens is this. The particular section that we are now discussing has been once renewed, and cannot be renewed time and time again automatically. We could not call it in aid again, but should have to come back to Parliament for new powers. I am certain that that is the fact.

§ LORD MANCROFT
My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a third time.

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
My Lords, now that we have passed the Committee and Report stage, I wish to register that I am a little 29 apprehensive about the future on the point that I raised on the Motion to go into Committee. It is quite certain that, to get on with this scheme, the Government must have their Bill to-day, and I have no intention of holding it up. But I hope that when we debate the Army Estimates (I think it is on July 31) we may have some further opportunity of discussing the matter. It is one thing to have an Act of Parliament on the Statute Book which can be used again in case of necessity, and quite another thing to be sure that we shall always be able to get new legislation of such an important character as that which is now being allowed to run out. It is rather an important point. I do not want to raise it in this form on the Army Estimates unless I have made it quite clear to the noble Lord that I am not quite satisfied about the position. I think the matter will have to be dealt with again.

§ LORD MANCROFT
My Lords, I am obliged to the noble Viscount. May I make quite certain that I understand what is worrying him? It is not the fact that we may have difficulty in getting the regular recruits—that, we all know, is a problem. As the noble Viscount knows, a special Committee has been set up, under my own chairmanship, to deal with that problem, and we are doing it as energetically as possible. Is this what is worrying him? I have told him that if we have to renew any form of National Service—which we hope we shall not—then we shall have to come to Parliament 30 again. That is the point which is worrying the noble Viscount, is it not?

§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH
Yes.

§ LORD MANCROFT
I quite understand.