§ 2.40 p.m.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether a quantitative control for exports to China is being worked out in "Chincom" in Paris, and, if so (1) what strategic purpose, if any, is such a control designed to serve; (2) on what basis of allocation is the control being worked out as between the United Kingdom and other N.A.T.O. countries; and (3) what steps are being taken to ensure that the advantages of the initiative shown by Her Majesty's Government in acting unilaterally to reduce the China embargo are being fully maintained in the interests of British traders.]
THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE EARL OF GOSFORD)My Lords, it is correct that quotas for the twenty-five items under quantitative control for export to China are being discussed by the China Committee of the Consultative Group in Paris. While these items are not necessarily of strategic importance as single units, they become important if exported in sufficient quantities. The basis of allocation is a matter for adjustment between member countries in the light of the strategic potentialities of the items in question.
1240 There is no question of British exporters being in a special position in this matter since the majority of the countries represented on the China Committee have now adopted the same control list for both the Soviet bloc and China. It is for business men themselves to follow up the opportunities for trade in non-strategic goods which Her Majesty's Government's action in relaxing the embargo should open to them in the China market. In this they would be effectively supported by the Sino-British Trade Committee and they can, of course, rely on all possible help from the Board of Trade.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, whilst thanking the noble Earl for his answer, and while still holding that there is no justification for extending the out-of-date Korean embargo, to a general embargo to China, may I ask him whether he can explain why, in the case of many articles in the second list which are of non-strategic character, they should be subjected to a quantitative control at all, especially having regard to the fact that they can be obtained by China from non-N.A.T.O. and other countries, and also that China herself is manufacturing many of them at an increasing rate?
THE EARL OF GOSFORDMy Lords, it might appear outwardly reasonable that certain of those items should not be in the quantitative list, but it is certain that in those items there may be materials which, if exported in quantity, will result in lowering the embargo on strategic goods as such to China. As for the list itself, that is not a matter for Her Majesty's Government to decide: it is a decision taken by the Committee as a whole.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKI thank the noble Earl, but is he also aware that quantitative control, in practice, is throwing British exporters back into all the irritations and uncertainties which obtained under the end-use procedure?
THE EARL OF GOSFORDI would suggest that the noble Viscount waits until the Committee has had the meeting which is going on at present before arguing in detail about this subject.
§ THE EARL OF LUCANMy Lords, can the noble Earl explain on what information Her Majesty's Government decide what is the critical level of exports after which they become strategic?
THE EARL OF GOSFORDI think I should rather have notice of that question; it does not form part of the noble Viscount's Question.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, if notice were given, would the noble Earl be willing to give a clear definition of what is "strategic value "? It is not very clear
THE EARL OF GOSFORDI think I should have to consult my right honourable friend before committing him to a definite reply.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEI will give notice.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg to ask the Second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will state the names of the countries having representatives on "Chincom."]
THE EARL OF GOSFORDMy Lords, the countries represented in the China Committee are Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, the Federal Republic of Germany, Greece, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Turkey, the United Kingdom and the United States.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his Answer. Is is not quite astonishing that America, which does no export trade at all with China and frowns upon countries which do, should nevertheless have a representative on this secret Committee "Chincom" in Paris, allocating trade between British exporters and their foreign competitors?
THE EARL OF GOSFORDAs I understand the noble Viscount, he is indicating that America does not export to China,
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEIs the noble Earl not aware that America appears, from what one reads in the papers, to impose a total boycott as regards both persons and goods to China?
THE EARL OF GOSFORDI do not quite understand the noble Viscount. I do not see how this comes into the original Question. The original Question was concerned with countries who are members of "Chincom." I cannot argue the reason for their membership.