§ 3.8 p.m.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have any statement to make about the first part of the Report of Sir Barclay Nihill's Committee on the Organisation for handling the Admiralty's Requirements in Matériel.]
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (THE EARL OF SELKIRK)My Lords, the Board of Admiralty have now considered the first part of the report of the Committee, under the Chairmanship of Sir Barclay Nihill, which has examined the organisation for handling the matériel requirements of the Admiralty, including the Headquarters Departments of the Controller and the Dockyards. As a result of this examination the Fourth Sea Lord, while continuing to perform his present duties in the field of supplies and transport, will, on behalf of the Controller, assume responsibility for superintendence of the Dockyards and maintenance of the Fleet. His title will be amended to "Fourth Sea Lord and Vice-Controller". This arrangement will lighten the load of the Controller and leave him with more time to devote to design and development
It has also been decided to group the considerable number of Departments now reporting to the Controller into four main groups. Three of these—the Department of Naval Construction, the Department of Weapons and Radio, and the Department of Air Matériel—will come directly under the Controller. The fourth Department—Dockyard and Fleet Maintenance—will come under the Fourth Sea Lord 1317 and Vice-Controller. The Headquarters Departments of the Royal Naval Scientific Service will remain under the Controller as at present. Each of these large Departments will be under the control of a Director-General. This is intended to afford fuller delegation of authority accompanied by more effective powers of co-ordination below Board level. This should enable more rapid decisions to be made and reduce the subjects which the Controller will have to attend to personally. As this organisation becomes effective, the number of personnel at Headquarters will fall.
LORD GIFFORDMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his Answer, which I am sure will be welcome, particularly as anybody who has served in the Admiralty well knows that the Controller in the past had an intolerable burden to bear. Many have broken down under the strain.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I have not had an opportunity of seeing this Report yet. I suppose it is in the Printed Paper Office.
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKIt is not a Report which will be made public: it is a purely departmental Report.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHThen I do not see how it is that a Back Bencher has been able to refer to this Report and raise questions on it. Certainly those of us who have had long experience at the Admiralty would like to be equally informed as to the detailed nature of the Report. I should have thought that the questions which have been referred to by the First Lord of the Admiralty are so important that we ought to be able to make a detailed study of them.
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKI can assure the noble Viscount that the existence of this Report has been referred to on a number of occasions. It has been proceeding for a year or so, and to-day the noble Lord asked me a Question which enabled me to say that certain steps have already been taken, before the Report was fully complete, to implement certain parts of it. That is all.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEIs it in order to refer in detail in this House to a Report before it is laid?
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKI do not think I have referred to it in detail at all. All I have said is that certain changes in the organisation are following the investigation which has been carried out.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, in another place if this Report was mentioned at all, surely it would have to be laid? What are the Rules of this House with regard to that?
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKAll I have referred to is the fact that certain changes have taken place in the Department, following an examination of the Departments by a Committee, to which reference has already been made in debate.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I think the best way of solving this matter is for us to put down a Motion that the Report be laid.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATESurely, it should not be necessary to put down a Motion. I do not know about the Rules. There is nothing in Standing Orders about this, so far as I know, but I should think the practice of the House must be quite clear: that, attention having been drawn to the fact that the Report has been quoted, the Minister must forthwith lay the Report, without any special Motion.
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKMy Lords. I have quoted no words at all from a Report. All I have said is that certain reorganisation has taken place, and I think I am quite entitled to do that without laying the Report. I am not anxious to withhold anything from noble Lords in this matter, but this does not happen to be a departmental Report which has been specifically arranged for publication.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, the information the First Lord has given to-day (which I shall, of course, study carefully when read the text to-morrow) seems to me to be of such importance, so deliberate and so far-reaching, and raising questions of organisation as between the dockyards and the general duties of the Comptroller, and to be based largely on the Report of a Committee which has reported, apparently only on Part I of its inquiry (we have had no reference to what is going on with the rest of the Report) that there is every reason why we should have the 1319 Report laid before your Lordships and, I hope, before the other House of Parliament.
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKMy Lords, I should be very glad to answer any debate on this subject. I am bound to say that I think it is quite in order to have a departmental Report which is not to be laid before Parliament. I think there are many examples of that.