§ 3.53 p.m.
§ THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY)My Lords, with the permission of the House, I should like to interrupt the Business in order to make a statement which has been made in another place by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary; and if noble Lords will allow me, I will use his own words, because he deals largely with his experiences while e was away. The statement is as follows:
§ "I wish to make a statement with regard to my recent visit New York and the discussions there with regard to the situation in Egypt. My statement can only he of an interim character. There are important questions to be decided, and they must be discussed with our French Allies before 691 decisions can be announced. M. Pineau is coming to London to-morrow afternoon and I propose to make a further statement next Monday.
§ "I found the general atmosphere in the United Nations considerably improved and a wide understanding of our position in certain sections of American opinion. The debate on the Afro-Asian Resolution during Friday and Saturday of last week indicated the change in the atmosphere in the United Nations. I pointed out that we could not accept that Resolution, because it implied a measure of censure which we could not accept and because it demanded that we should withdraw forthwith. Also the Resolution was unrealistic, as it made no reference to an International Force. I indicated our desire to co-operate with the United Nations in these matters and I hoped for a Resolution which we could accept. After I had expressed those views, the representative of Belgium put forward an amendment to the Afro-Asian Resolution calling upon us to expedite the application of the Resolutions of the 2nd and 7th November (which among other things urged us to withdraw) in the spirit in which they were adopted, particularly in regard to the functions vested in the United Nations Force. I stated that if that amendment was accepted the United Kingdom would be able to vote for the Resolution. That also was the position of France. On the Belgian amendment the vote was 23 in favour, 37 against and 18 abstentions, including the United States of America. In other words, the majority of the Assembly either voted with us or abstained. That constituted a considerable shift of opinion.
§ "The original Resolution was then put to a vote and carried by a very large majority. I should, however, point out that the vote on this Resolution was affected in my view by the fact that Mr. Cabot Lodge, representing the United States, had stated that he interpreted the word 'forthwith' to mean 'a phased operation.' We have repeatedly indicated our willingness to withdraw our forces from Egypt when the International Force was effectively constituted and competent to carry out its functions. The 692 House will recall the suggestion originally made by the Prime Minister on November 1 with regard to the United Nations' undertaking the physical task of keeping the peace in the area. From that date the conception of an International Force rapidly gained support. The United Nations Force has now been constituted and is growing rapidly in numbers.
§ "I should like to pay tribute to the speed with which the Secretary-General and his advisers have acted. There are already some 1,400 men in Egypt. By December 1 there will be about 2.700. Within some fourteen days the force should number 4,100, apart from some air personnel, approximately 300 in number, stationed at Naples. Among these 4,400 will be some 700 Canadian troops. Within a fortnight there should be an organised military Force with a headquarters and staff under the command of General Burns, with two armoured car companies and the necessary supporting units, including medical, engineer, transport, signals, supply, workshop, provost and post units and other Army services elements. The provisional target of the Secretary-General is to increase that Force to two combat brigades, with appropriate administrative backing, including air transport.
§ "I mention these facts to the House because obviously the build-up of this Force must have an important relationship to a phased withdrawal of our own and the French troops. There are, however, other important matters to be considered, such as the speedy clearance of the Canal and the negotiation of a final settlement with regard to the future operation of the Canal. Decisions upon these matters must be discussed with our French Allies, and I also await certain clarifications with regard to the carrying out of the Resolution passed last Saturday by the General Assembly. This authorised the Secretary-General to proceed with arrangements for clearance as a United Nations operation. I shall be able to deal with those aspects of the matter next Monday.
§ "Grave anxiety has been caused in this country as to the position of British subjects in Egypt. The House will recall the statement made by my right 693 honourable friend the Minister of State on November 26. As soon as I received the report from the Swiss Ministry of Foreign Affairs I made known to the Secretary-General of the United Nations the very serious view which Her Majesty's Government took of it and of the consequences which would inevitably follow if the expulsion were put into effect.
§ "On November 27 I sent a letter to the Secretary-General pointing out the hardship that would be caused to thousands of British subjects, many of them poor people, who were to be forced to leave the country, where they had lived many years, without being permitted to take sufficient money with them to start a new life elsewhere.
§ "The present position is not entirely clear, but it seems that no general expulsion order was made. The Egyptian Government did, however, issue a very large number of individual expulsion orders against British and French subjects. In addition, several hundred British subjects remain interned. The Swiss Minister in Cairo, to whose work I should like to pay a warm tribute, is doing everything he can both to improve the position of British subjects in Egypt and to clarify the Egyptian Government's intentions. We await his further reports.
§ "Bearing in mind what I have said earlier, I hope that the House will be willing to await my further statement on Monday."
§ My Lords, that is the statement which has been made by my right honourable friend in another place.
§ 4.0 p.m.
§ LORD SILKINMy Lords, we are very grateful for this statement and quite understand the reasons why it is not possible to-day to have a fuller statement. I imagine that since this House will not be sitting on Monday next, we might get the later statement on Tuesday; and no doubt the noble Marquess will say something as to the opportunities for a debate later on. In the meantime, I should like to ask this one question, as a matter of clarification: could the noble Marquess say what is the policy of Her Majesty's Government on withdrawal? Is it a phased withdrawal or are we going to withdraw only when the International 694 Force has been effectively constituted? Those are two separate conceptions, both of which are referred to in the statement, and I am not clear which of them represents the policy of Her Majesty's Government. If the policy is for a phased withdrawal, I should have thought that the atmosphere would be very much eased if we made a beginning and showed some indication of our readiness to carry out this phased withdrawal. I hope that the noble Marquess can answer that question. I should like also to voice— and I am sure that everyone in this House will agree— the abhorrence with which we view the manner in which British subjects are being treated in Egypt, whether by expulsion or by internment. I feel that we should wish to express to the Swiss Government our gratitude for the assistance they are giving.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, in answer to the noble Lord's question, I think I have already made clear in this House that our policy is one of a phased withdrawal. I would add that I understand that one battalion has already left, so that the process has begun. I would beg the noble Lord not to press me further to-day, as all these are matters which have to be discussed with the French Government tomorrow and over the week-end.
§ LORD HENDERSONMy Lords, I wish to support my noble Leader in this matter. I should like to be clear whether the question of a phased withdrawal in relation to the incoming of the United Nations Emergency Force is a clear-cut proposition. Can the noble Marquess say that the withdrawal is not rated to any other matter? The noble Marquess will surely agree that until there has been a speedy withdrawal of British and French forces, and a handing over to the United Nations Emergency Force, there can he no real chance of dealing with vitally urgent matters such as the clearance of the Canal, settlement of the regime for international freedom of the waterway and restoration of the unity of the Anglo-American Alliance. I feel, therefore, that it is most desirable that we should know that there is no condition attached to the withdrawal of British and French forces, apart from that of ensuring that they do hand over to the United Nations Emergency Force.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYLords, the noble Lord's question is a perfectly fair one, but I think it more appropriate in relation to the statement which my right honourable friend hopes to make on Monday, and which I shall make in your Lordships' House later. I beg the noble Lord not to press this matter to-day. I should also like to say how much I have appreciated what the noble Lord, Lord Silkin, said about the treatment of British subjects. Whether or not we may agree on other aspects of these incidents, I am sure that on that particular aspect we are all at one.
One other point has been raised— the question of a debate. As your Lordships know, we had discussed the possibility of a debate next Wednesday— in fact, the noble Lord, Lord Henderson, has already tabled a Motion. I now understand that the debate in another place is not likely to take place before Wednesday and Thursday of next week. In these circumstances, in accordance with our usual practice, I think it will be the general view that we should postpone our debate until the following week. The present position is that we are reserving Tuesday for the debate and either Wednesday or Thursday for a second day. I would say Wednesday definitely, but, as noble Lords will know, there is already a Motion down for that day in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Winster, who is not here to-day, and I have therefore been unable to clear up that point. I am always very reluctant to ask noble Lords to take a Motion off the Order Paper, and I suggest to the House that, if it is inconvenient to the noble Lord, Lord Winster, to postpone his Motion, we might well start the debate on Tuesday and complete it on Thursday. At any rate, we will reserve two days of the week after next, if they are needed, for that debate.