HL Deb 06 November 1956 vol 200 cc5-23

The Queen's Speech reported by The LORD CHANCELLOR.

3.45 p.m.

LORD BIRDWOOD

My Lords, I beg to move, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as followeth: Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects. the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament. My Lords, it is my immediate duty to say how deeply grateful I am to the noble Marquess the Leader of the House for the great privilege afforded me on this occasion, when I ask your Lordships to join in presenting the humble Address to Her Majesty. The times are challenging, and I confess, personally, to a sense of unusual responsibility in presenting to your Lordships some of the issues which have been mentioned in the gracious Speech. My first task, however, is simple and free of controversy. It is to record that, beyond and above the clamour and disputation of political events, whether national or international, the Royal Family continues to hold that unique position in our affections and our loyalty which is now so firmly entrenched through years of simple and complete devotion to duty. We have little doubt that Her Majesty's forthcoming visit; to Portugal, France and Denmark will prove once again that our beloved Queen is also our best Ambassador.

In His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh we have all come to recognise a personality who is unobstrusively playing his effective part in assisting to mould the life of the nation a way which is both imaginative and constructive. One of the problems of our time is to seek and find harmony in industrial relationships; and it is in this sphere particularly that we arc aware of a technical knowledge and mature wisdom which we pray may he at our disposal for years to come. But, above all, my Lords, we recognise a man, and a leader of men in his own right. In t lose circumstances, there is nothing but cause for profound gratitude.

I have spoken of our Royal Family in their role as Ambassadors, and it has indeed delighted us to hear of the rapturous reception which Her Royal Highness Princess Margaret received on her travels in Africa. Let those in other lands who, either through jealousy or malice, seek to denigrate the sentiment of our colonial territories for a distant dispensation in this country which watches over their interests, take note of the visible evidence—the spectacle of Africans in vast numbers pouring in born far and wide to greet our Princess in loyal welcome.

My Lord, I turn from the uncontroversial to matters of more contention. My noble friend Lord Cromer, who is to follow me, will be referring to aspects of the home scene on which I am not qualified to comment; but there are certain developments to which reference is made in the gracious Speech and with which I feel we an: all concerned. I refer, first, to Her Majesty's Government's plans for expanding the facilities for technical education and for a building programme for new schools It seems that in a society in which increasingly the tendency is towards the application of science to daily life, our supply of scientists and technical experts is it sufficient in a world of fierce competition.

Hitherto, we have been regarded as supreme in this field, from Newton, in the realm of pure science, to the applied sciences, in the hands of men such as Sir Frank Whittle, and the emergence of the gas turbine for jet propulsion. It would certainly be a sad day a sad when we found ourselves second in the field of scientific invention. But, my Lords, might it not prove equally disastrous if we were to drift away from that background of the classics and history, in which the finest minds in the country have been trained for generations, and. incidentally, for which your Lordships' House has proved a great repository? Again, while we welcome the ambitious building programme for schools, we should never forget that the quality of teachers and the standards they set for those they teach are probably of greater import than the comfort or equipment of the schools which house their pupils.

One other matter is of personal concern for every one of us—I refer to the present position in regard to the reform of the Upper House. I speak as one with all too little knowledge of this subject, and therefore with some hesitation I suggest only this: that it is extremely important that, when the time comes, within your Lordships' House at least we should endeavour to frame our proposals in agreement between the three Parties. For in my limited experience one thing seems clear: that we are, as a whole, as jealous for the reputation of this House as in any Parliamentary forum in the world.

In turning to events beyond these shores, we note that it was recently acknowledged on all sides that Her Majesty's Government have been faced with problems as intractable as could have been devised for the wisdom of Solomon. The Middle East presents a picture of confusion such as has not been within our experience since 1948. The gracious Speech has referred to International Agencies and the part they can play. In so far as the prospects of an International Police Force are concerned, Her Majesty's Government have made it clear that, in principle, they welcome the proposal, and I shall have some comment to make on this aspect of the future. The noble Earl who is to follow me, bearing the name he does, will very rightly refer to the plight of Egypt. It can be no satisfaction for him, or indeed for any of us, to note the state to which Egypt, through her own blind folly, has reduced herself. For wicked folly it was—the folly of a man who had become the victim of anti-Western obsessions of his own fertile imagination and creation. Thus it was that all accepted codes of international justice, on which alone that delicate plant of confidence can take root and seed, were flouted; and a great international waterway was seized in irresponsible and exultant defiance.

In the immediate situation, Her Majesty's Government have taken firm action, and while this is no occasion to plunge into all those points of intense controversy which have recently been the focus of heated debate. I think it is appropriate to draw attention to certain features in the sphere of politics, which occur to me as a student of polemics in the Middle East. It cannot be too emphatically insisted that the action which Her Majesty's Government took was the action of policemen; and if, at this late hour, international policemen are to be substituted for these very unpleasant duties. then let it go on record that such a logical development will have been made possible only through the greater sense of responsibility and the resolution shown by Her Majesty's Government. in association with France, in their isolated readiness to meet an international situation of grave peril. The argument is advanced that the duty of policemen is to support the law, and that we, who have acted, had no law to support us. Even if we were to accept that as truth, I think there is an answer—and I am indebted to the noble Viscount, Lord Samuel, for providing it, in a reflection: that the law must be the agent of justice, and not justice the servant of the law.

President Nasser has spoken of fighting us on every inch of Egyptian soil. It is language that we, above all, should appreciate. But let him rest assured that it is the very last thing we seek. Cairo will never be another Budapest, so far as we are concerned. To keep opposing forces apart, to prevent an Egyptian-Israeli war from being waged across the Suez Canal—this was our not unworthy purpose. And if, in the performance of our unwelcome task, we may have succeeded in awakening a far-removed international dispensation to a sense of its own responsibilities, we may, I suggest, belatedly witness the ever-shifting current of world opinion record its gratitude for the courage of this country in giving life and decision at last to a body which for years has faced the charge of ineptitude.

Furthermore, it seems that Her Majesty's Government would wisely seize the opportunity of insisting that the United Nations forces remain positioned until a final settlement of the eternal problem of Arab and Jew is achieved. That seems so simple and logical a condition as to defy further argument. In the meanwhile, the Prime Minister has told us that once our forces have occupied key positions on the Canal the Government will ensure that Israeli troops withdraw from Egyptian territory. That unambiguous statement alone should he the answer to those malicious charges of collusion between Her Majesty's Government and the Government of Israel.

I am tempted, my Lords, to one further reflection. Too few realise that within the true Arab world we have proven and trusted friends who have stood by us through fortune and misfortune. It must be in accordance both with right policy and with principle that we should weigh each future step we take in the light of their opinion and their difficulties. If we are, in fact, at this late hour. to witness effective international participation in solving the problems of the Middle East, we could indeed wish that such assistance was available to help the people of Central Europe in their pitiful distress, whether as an extension of the conception of an International Police Force or in the use of humanitarian agencies of relief.

In frustration we watch Poles and Hungarians struggling to free themselves from a political and physical strangulation which has held them in bondage ever since the close of the last world war. In this second half of the twentieth century, the citizens of a great and beautiful capital city have been mown down, for no other reason than a desire to possess their own soil and control their own destiny. Furthermore, Mr. Soboley chose the very moment when the Soviet Army was spreading terror in. Budapest to tell the Security Council that Egypt would again be able to uphold her independence—an independence which, of course, was never challenged. In bewilderment, we wonder whether we shall ever see the day when Central Europe shall once again be captain of its own soul. And we, across a narrow sea, who are fortunate to live in freedom, are perhaps in danger, not so much of indifference as of a laziness of mind which dulls us to the suffering of others We drift in a twilight of history between peace and war—co-existence certainly, but never peaceful—and we may live on in this vacuum in human progress for a generation or more.

The question then arises as to how we conceive our duty. What should he our contribution towards terminating a situation of international paralysis? We seem not to have grasped the hard truth, that while perhaps, the dangers of physical nuclear war on a global scale recede, the war of minds has never ceased; an it we are reluctant to adopt those bold new methods which are imperative if we are to meet and defeat the encroachment of a rival ideology which supports its religious fanaticism with an effcient and ruthless technique. It is along those lines. applied on an international scale, that perhaps may lie some chance of assistance for those who suffer in 'Central Europe; and since the gracious Speech made reference to cooperation with international agencies, I have felt justified in indicating, as I conceive it, the nature of our help to them. Too often he privilege of indignation is left to out enemies. Let us not only reassert that privilege but support it with every practical and effective measure possible, short of war.

As compared with such inflexible problems defying solution. the position in Cyprus, though continuing in anxiety. seems not without hope. Her Majesty's Government's belief is, as I interpret it, that once terrorism is defeated responsible Cypriot opinion, freed of intimidation, will come forward. Within the. Commonwealth, so often it is our fate to wrestle wits the puzzle of passing power and independence to plural communities. a majority and a minority, and, when the minority it reluctant to see that power pass, the difficulty is all the greater. Simultaneously, the Middle East situation has served only to emphasise our own strategic responsibilities, and, by implication, an international concern in the future of Cyprus. It is the task of Lord Radcliffe, in his wisdom and from his great experience, to draft a Constitution which may reconcile these confusing elements and offer the conditions on which Greek-speaking Cypriots and Turks may be prepared to talk over their indivisible future around a table together. When tha happy day arrives it will surely he welcome to all of us, whatever may have been our previous hesitations or prejudices.

It is with relief that I turn, finally, to happier matters of Commonwealth concern arising out of the gracious Speech. At last we are to realise the great conception of a Caribbean Federation. Six islands, hitherto not unnaturally jealous of their own separate individuality, stretched over an area a thousand miles in length, are to go forward in mutual co-operation. It is the unanimous agreement of those who have had the honour to represent the British Caribbean Colonies on this historic occasion, that our countries should be hound together in Federation. With those words the delegates to the London Conference in February ended an uncertainty which had prevailed since 1947; and Her Majesty's Government can rightly take pride in the achievement.

But, spectacular as is this landmark of colonial policy, it is the prospect of the Gold Coast, as "Ghana," assuming its status as a full member State within the Commonwealth in just four months' time which must capture our imagination. Here, my Lords, is the true answer to those who. for their own purposes, continue in different parts of the world to upbraid and slander us with their monotonous clichés on the theme of Colonialism." Since the emergence of India. Pakistan and Ceylon into nationhood within the Commonwealth family, there was never any doubt in the minds of responsible opinion, whether in Colonies or in full member States, of the final purpose: to offer every colonial territory capable of standing on its own legs the choice of independence within or without our free association of nations. It is that persistent process which, in the case of the Gold Coast. will shortly reach fulfilment.

There are difficulties. Dr. Nkrumah has called for the retention of officers of the Oversea Service at their posts: and the position of those officers is not entirely satisfactory. Doubtless the same difficulties will appear elsewhere in the future. Nevertheless, the process will not be halted so long as those concerned can feel that Commonwealth membership means that the total of the components adds up to something more than an answer in terms of strict arithmetic.

And so, my Lords, in noting in the gracious Speech a reference to further the progress and constitutional development of the territories for whose well-being Her Majesty's Ministers are responsible, let us realise that we witness that process as part of a master plan, involving the spread of our Parliamentary institutions, the acceptance of our procedure, the British interpretation of democracy; and. as often as not, the use of the British language. Although we may expect little flattery or applause, these things in themselves will prove enduring compensation. In the circumstances we may. I think, be forgiven if sometimes we turn to each other, so that others may not hear, and comfort ourselves in the reflection that here in this Island the seeds of a message were sown, with significance one day for a world beyond the Commonwealth. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved. That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as followeth— Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, in Parliament assembled. beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament."—(Lord Birdwood.)

4.7 p.m.

THE EARL OF CROMER

My Lords, like the noble Lord. Lord Birdwood, to whose thoughtful speech we have listened with deep interest and attention, I should like first to thank the noble Marquess the Leader of the House for the unexpected honour he has accorded me in asking me to second this humble Address. It is indeed a privilege. But privilege, as always. carries with it responsibility. Tradition demands of the Mover and the Seconder of this Address an even higher degree of circumspection than that which is normally required of a speaker in your Lordships' House.

I do not intend to dwell on foreign affairs, partly because the noble Lord. Lord Birdwood, has already spoken with great knowledge and authority on this field, but also because I think it would be presumptuous for me to expound matters of which so many of your Lordships have such wide personal experience and knowledge. I do not, however, think it would be out of place for me to say with what deep anxiety I, perhaps even more than many of your Lordships, have been watching recent events in Egypt. With the name I have the honour to bear, it is perhaps particularly poignant that on the occasion I stand here to second this humble Address we should once again be in military conflict with Egypt.

In the history of Egypt there has been more than one example of rulers or leaders whose conceit, corruption. arrogance and perfidy have led the unhappy people of that country to the brink of disaster. But we Britons have, almost in living memory, saved Egypt from bankruptcy, anarchy and invasion; we freed her from the yoke and oppression of the old Turkey, and we were the first country in the world to recognise Egypt as an independent sovereign State. When we withdrew from Egypt we left behind in the minds of an amazingly diverse cross-section of the population a recognition of integrity and fair dealing which had been built up over some sixty years by an outstanding group of Englishmen who had freed the masses of the Egyptian people from the serfdom which they had suffered through sixty centuries. Now, surely. if we act, as I believe we are doing, with firmness and integrity, those of the Egyptian people who can see through the hollow pretensions of Colonel Nasser will recognise the inevitability of our actions and the inter-dependence, rather than the incompatibility. of Egyptian and British interests.

In after years, writing about our intervention in Egypt in 1882, my grandfather wrote: A great nation cannot throw off the responsibilities which its past history and its position in the world have imposed upon it. My Lords, I believe that those words are just as true to-day.

The shadows cast of recent weeks by international affairs have tended to distract attention from home affair. But the gracious Speech points out that here the problem which overrides all others is that of our balance of payments, and the latest statement of our gold and dollar reserves gives no ground for false optimism. If we fail in this, our efforts in other directions will be of little import, and this is a problem the solution of which lies mainly with ourselves. During the last war, various artificialities were introduced into the economy of this country—and they were necessary at the time and under the conditions then prevailing. Since that time. many of them have been removed; but not all of them. And unfortunately those that still remain are those which tend to obscure from the people of tiffs country our position relative r: o the rest of the world, be it good or be it bad.

Under normal conditions there can be no justification for consumer subsidies. If a man is able to work, his wages should be at a sufficiently high rate to meet his needs and also such Luxuries as the productive capacity of the country can make available after satisfying the national needs for export. Those who, for one reason or another, are unable to earn their living of curse require assistance from the State, and this should be given in the form of direct aid. I think it is true to say that the Government has gone a considerable way towards this goal, and as a further step in this direction I welcome the reference in the gracious Speech regarding revision of rent restrictions. Artificially low rents are bound to lead to excessively rapid deterioration of household property: they fail to remunerate those who have satisfied a social need, and they artificially create demands for other pods by relieving the tenants of their proper share of responsibility.

My Lords, once the discipline of sound money is rejected and the idea of managed currency accepted, you embark on a voyage in uncharted waters with untried and often unreliable aids to navigation. The cross-wind of popular demand is such that any Government finds itself in danger of foundering by assuming it degree of social responsibility beyond its practical capacity to bear, and any attempt to shorten the sails is hailed by passengers and crew alike as adequate grounds for mutiny. Whether the voyage is shorter by this uncharted route no one knows, although there are 71enty of voices to say it is; but they a the voices that are silent in the face of the argument that it is more certain that we will reach our destination by the more orthodox route, even if it does take longer. At least we do not want it said of us: They went to sea in a sieve they did; In a siev: they went to sea. Her Majesty's Government deserve our congratulations on their resoluteness in pursuing policy of credit restraint, and the success of their policy becomes more evident as time goes, by. The industrial investment programme continues at a high rate, although the rate of increase will almost certainly be down on last year. This is highly satisfactory and is exactly what the Chancellor of the Exchequer has always said was his intention. Although some of the froth has been blown off the top of consumer demand by the credit squeeze and hire-purchase restrictions, which are to be put on a permanent basis, disposable incomes have continued to rise, largely as a result of wage increases. This year the wage rate index rose 6½ per cent. in the first eight months, as against an annual average increase of only 4½per cent. for each of the four years 1951 to 1954. During the first half of this year 11½million people were granted wage increases which will amount to £298 million in a full year. This is going too quickly: in a democracy it is the Achilles' heel. The Government do not fix wage rates, and I hope they never will attempt it. In point of fact, in the ultimate wage rates are fixed by the consumer; and in the case of this country, which must export or starve, that means by foreign buyers of our goods. The time has conic when it is no longer possible to pass wage increases on by raising prices to our consumers and customers, either overseas or at home.

The next twelve months may well be critical from the point of view of our exports, and the current applications for wage increases cannot leave any thinking person unperturbed. These wage demands are all the more surprising in the light of the T.U.0 statement after the Autumn Budget of last year, which I should like to read to your Lordships: Rising costs and prices are the biggest threat to our balance of payments, to continuing full employment and to living standards. The lesson which every working-class family has learned over the past fifteen years is that increases in wages have largely been cancelled out by increases in prices. This process will continue unless rises in incomes are kept broadly in line with increases in output—or until it is terminated by unemployment. That, after all, is exactly what successive Chancellors of the Exchequer, of both Parties, have been saying for a long time. It is indeed gratifying to find Her Majesty's Government and the leaders of organised labour in such close agreement on this matter. In the light of this statement. as the facts are incontrovertible, it is perhaps all the more confusing that there should be more wage claims now, when the Index of Industrial Production is this year running below last year's levels and the Index of Retail Prices for the last few months has been constant.

Whilst the facts may be accepted by the leaders of industry and the leaders of the trades unions, there is clearly not the same understanding in the country as a whole, and this must surely be based on ignorance—not ignorance of abstruse economic theories, or of facts which are remote and meaningless, but of facts which are perfectly comprehensible to almost anyone if only they are properly explained. There has without doubt been much confusion, for instance, on the question of profits, and a misguided belief that these are limitless and that, but for them, wages would he much higher. Full advantage has been taken of this confusion by those who take pleasure in spreading dissension. This myth was exploded only a fortnight ago by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in an Answer given to a Question in another place.

What is perhaps the most disturbing factor is that there should be such ignorance. I do not think that the blame for this can be placed on our educational system, although one would have hoped perhaps that the new secondary modern schools, to say nothing of other secondary schools, would have started to inculcate a greater sense of responsibility. Maybe they have, and it is too early yet to tell. I personally think that the main cause of ignorance, and hence irresponsibility, is the failure on the part of management to explain to their employees the economic facts of company life. How few corn-panics yet publish the aggregate amount of their wage payments, and how misleading to the uninitiated arc the vast majority of profit and loss accounts! Businessmen in general, and the accountancy profession in particular, have a great responsibility here to bring out the true facts in a manner which can be understood. It is necessary that those responsible in these matters should mean what they say and say what they mean and say it loudly and clearly.

The reference in the gracious Speech to the intention of Her Majesty's Government to explore the possibility of creating an area in Europe in which there will be fewer restrictions on trade can only be widely welcomed by all who have at heart the interest of the country as a whole. This is a bold and constructive step, my Lords, and those who may at first feel critically disposed towards the idea should ponder deeply on what would happen to this country if we were to be excluded from such an arrangement.

In a highly industrialised country such as this, an effective transport system is essential to carry our life-blood. Your Lordships will, I am sure, welcome the far-seeing and ambitious programme of the British' Transport Commission. Whilst a really efficient railway system may win back from the roads some of the traffic which has been lost of recent years, your Lordships may be surprised that there is no reference in the gracious Speech to those. As every one of your Lordships must have suffered the frustration of driving along our hopelessly inadequate roads and seen the appalling waste of time and. I am sorry to say, lives, I do not think I need enlarge on this matter; but I believe it is true to say that the general opinion is that the road programme is not being treated with the urgency which it merits.

The noble Lord, Lord Birdwood, has drawn your Lordships' attention to the intention of Her Majesty's Government to introduce some reform of this House. Whilst there may be many opinions as to how this should be done, I think there is fairly wide agreement that some action is necessary if this House is to remain an effective debating Chamber. I must admit to a certain wonder at times at the versatility of noble Lords on the Benches opposite who fill with such diligence the task of the Opposition on every subject under the sun.

I believe most noble Lords will also he glad to see that Her Majesty's Government have been reviewing the finance of local government, including the incidence of the rate burden on different classes of property, although their pleasure probably will stern from widely different sources. The policy of Parliament in passing legislation in wide terms, leaving detailed implementation to local authorities, always brings up in my mind a picture of the Treasury perpetually trying to fill a colander. The tendency to over centralise has undermined local responsibility and recognition of the possible as opposed to the merely desirable.

Her Majesty's Government intend to introduce legislation to maintain progress in improving social and working conditions and I amend the law concerning the closing hours of shops and related matters. 'There is much confusion on this subject at tie present time and clarification will no doubt be welcomed. I hope that due account will be taken of the needs of the public who cannot do all their shopping between nine o'clock and live o'clock on a weekday, and that some protection will be given to the shopkeeper who is desirous of serving the public need. I think this matter is of particular importance at a time when so many married women are doing a full-time job. At any rate, we did not earn our honourable reputation as a nation of shopkeeper[...] by prescribing the hours of attendance of customers. My Lords, legislations to be introduced to amend the law of homicide. I do not think that your Lordships would expect me to comment on this as it is a matter on which every man mint he guided by his own conscience.

Our economic and social policy in the years sine the war has been heavily influenced 'by the grim events of the early 'thirties. I is not surprising that those bad times should have left an indelible scar on the minds of all those who had responsibility in those days. f am just old enough to remember some aspects of that sad time. Whilst I do not believe that the world has entered into a new era of plenty, I do not think we should spend 'too much energy fighting dragons of the past at the expense of arming ourselves against the dangers and difficulties of the present and the future. The gracious speech gives every indication that Her Majesty's Government intend to continue to lead us into a future in which we can have confidence and hope. My Lords, I beg to second the Motion for an humble Address.

4.24 p.m.

LORD SILKIN

My Lords, I beg to move that the debate be now adjourned. I have no doubt that our proceedings in the course of the next few days will no be quite so uncontroversial as they have been so fat this afternoon and as I hope they will continue to be for the rest of the afternoon. It is therefore a great pleasure to me to begin the new Session by making a number of propositions which I think will meet with universal acceptance. First of all, the Motion itself will, I hope, not be regarded as controversial. Secondly, I should like, on behalf of my noble friends, and I am sure on behalf of the whole House, to welcome back the noble Marquess, the Leader of the House. At times we disagree with him profoundly; nevertheless we have missed him in his absence from our councils. We hope that he has fully recovered and will be able to carry on the leadership of the House with his usual vigour. May I say, in passing, that I am sure he will be gratified to hear that in his absence the noble Earl, Lord Home, has carried on with great distinction and ability, and agreeableness to all parts of the House.

I want now to turn to the noble Lords who moved and seconded the humble Address. I had occasion to look at last year's proceedings, because among the many parts that I have had to play in this House, this is one that I have not played before. I therefore wished to see for how long I ought to talk and what kind of things I ought to say. I noted that the noble Marquess said on that occasion that speeches by movers and seconders of Addresses were universally good; but 1 imagine that some are better than others. I sometimes wonder whether the supply of movers and seconders of Addresses will ever dry up. During the time that I have been in the House, Governments of both Parties have been very successful in finding just the right kind of people and the right kind of combination to perform this most difficult task. Her Majesty's Government are to be congratulated, at any rate, on having found two men of outstanding ability and whose experience and knowledge are complementary to one another, to carry out this difficult task.

The noble Lord who moved the Motion bears a great name, and it is an especial personal pleasure to me to congratulate him, because, years ago, I had the privilege of knowing his very distinguished father, who was Master of Peterhouse. I have a son who was there, and when I visited my son I occasionally had the privilege of meeting the noble Lord's father. It was a great privilege, and I was therefore most interested to see how his son would perform this afternoon. We have heard the noble Lord before, of course, and we know that he always speaks with confidence, knowledge and authority on the particular subjects which he has made his own; but a debate is one thing, and moving a Motion of this kind is a very difficult and totally different kind of performance. He has carried out his difficult task with great ability. One of his duties was to be non-controversial and I would say that he has succeeded, at least to the extent of 75 per cent.

The noble Earl also carries a great name, but he does not speak in this House as often as I think he should. Perhaps he will now be encouraged to come here more frequently and give us the benefit of his experience. Obviously he is a master of economics, finance and banking—subjects which are of great importance and of which this House has not a sufficiency of experienced persons. We very much hope, therefore, that he will come and talk to us on other occasions. He, also, has carried out his duty with great distinction. It is not an easy task. He, too, has managed on the whole to avoid controversy, although I hesitate to say what proportion of marks I would award to him. But I should like sincerely to congratulate both noble Lords on having carried through their difficult tasks so well, and I hope that we shall frequently hear from them again. I beg to move.

Moved, That the debate be now adjourned.—(Lord Silkin.)

4.30 p.m.

LORD REA

My Lords, I rise to second the Motion that this debate be adjourned until tomorrow. As your Lordships know, it is a tradition that the very high qualities of the speeches of the mover and seconder should be referred to with appreciation by noble Lords in the position of Lord Silkin and myself. If those speeches should have no high qualities, then the highest available quality, I think, may be referred to. This afternoon I feel that I may join the noble Lord, Lord Silkin, with myself in thanking the noble mover and seconder for putting us in no quandary at all. What we have to do is to compliment them. in real sincerity, on the truly high quality of the speeches which they have made.

I am not going to keep your Lordships, but in referring to both noble Lords who have given us such an interesting foretaste of their qualities I must express the hope that they will continue to give us increasingly frequent contributions to our debates. Lord Birdwood is no newcomer as a speaker in your Lordships' House. I am a devoted follower of his, in particular when he speaks on the subject of Overseas Information Services; and he is equally adept on "Over-Benches" Information. The noble Earl, Lord Cromer. may be slightly behind in the number of speeches he has made, but it is clear that he is not behind in quality. With some trepidation may I, in referring to the delightful and persuasive manner in which both noble Lords spoke, quote some lines from A Midsummer Night's Dream: … I will aggravate my, voice so that I will roar you as gently as any sucking dove I will roar you an 'twere any nightingale. I should like to felicitate both the "sucking dove" and the "nightingale."

4.32 p.m.

THE LORID PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY)

My Lords, in rising to support the Motion which has been moved by the noble Lord, Lord Silkin, and seconded by the noble Lord, Lord Rea, I should like, first of all, to thank Lord Silkin most sincerely for the all too kind things he said about myself. Your Lordships already know all that I feel about this House, in which I have had the honour of leading my Party now for nearly fifteen years. I can assure your Lordships that any kindness which I receive from you touches me very deeply.

My main purpose in rising is, as I have said, to support the Motion for the adjournment of the debate, and also to join with the Leaders of the Labour and the Liberal Parties in congratulating the mover and seconder of the humble Address for the admirable way in which, undoubtedly, they have acquitted themselves this afternoon. I do so with the greatest sincerity. The task they had to perform is never an easy task, and I suppose that in some ways it was a particularly difficult task this year, for, as Lord Silkin has said, one quality which these speeches must traditionally have is that of complete impartiality, and there are some subjects at this moment on which I defy anyone to be entirely non-controversial. If they actually achieved, as Lord Silkin, I think, said, a propor- don of 75 per cent. of impartiality. I think; it was a very creditable performance. But I am afraid it is one that is unlikely to be kept up.

The noble Lord. Lord Birdwood, is himself a very distinguished soldier, as one might expect of a son of his famous father, and like him, served in the Indian Army. We know him here and we have come to respect him deeply, particularly for his for g personal knowledge of the Middle East. He is always listened to with especial interest by all your Lordships whenever he speaks on topics connected with it, and never more so than to-day. He said many wise and moderate things about a subject which, perhaps, is liable to evoke violent sentiments, and I think we should do well to ponder what he has said to us

I do no propose to advert any further to those particular topics, because I understand there is to be another opportunity on Thursday when I shall he able to address your Lordships. Nor do I propose to sty anything about the reform of your Lordships' House. On that, too, I hope to be able to speak—fairly briefly, I hope—at a later period of this debate. But there is one part of the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Birdwood—and equally, I think, the matter came into the speech of the noble Earl. Lord Cromer— upon which I should like to say something. "Flat is, I should, on behalf of all your Lordships, like to re-echo his words of loyalty to, and admiration for, Her Majesty The Queen and the Royal Family. Selfless and devoted, Her Majesty and her Family epitomise, I am sure, in al our minds, all that Monarchy can be at d should be. The most recent example is that of Erie visit of Her Royal Highness Princess Margaret to East Africa, which led to such wonderful demonstrations of personal loyalty. Alike the rulers and the servants of their people, our Royal Family are the envy of all other lands, and I should like to-day to give them, on your Lordships' behalf, our loyal and affectionate thanks for all they do.

And now I turn for one moment to the rest the speech of the seconder, the noble Earl, Lord Cromer. Lord Cromer Pas a double qualification for speaking to us this afternoon. He is, as your Lordships know, the grandson of one of our greatest Imperial statesmen—perhaps one of the greatest we have ever had in our long history, and one whose name is especially associated with Egypt, to the prosperity of which he devoted a large part of his life. Also—as, with his family name, one would expect—Lord Cromer is an expert on financial affairs, which are of such moment to us at the present time. Lord Cromer has often spoken to us before. I think the noble Lord, Lord Rea, rather underestimated the number of his speeches. I have listened to him with great enjoyment and immense benefit on a number of occasions, and I do not think he ever spoke better than he has done to-day. He was clear and eminently sensible, and he indeed made a contribution in accordance with the best traditions of your Lordships' House. I should like to congratulate him. I think there is no doubt that both these noble Lords not only confirmed but enhanced the high reputations which they already enjoy here. I hope that their notable success this afternoon will stimulate them to make many more contributions.

On Question, Motion agreed to, and debate adjourned accordingly.