HL Deb 02 May 1956 vol 197 cc43-5

2.35 p.m.

LORD TEVIOT

My Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is their policy in regard to the buying up of bakeries by big firms with a view to controlling the sale of bread and in regard to the establishment of plant bakeries and groupings of bakers; and whether these practices have the effect of restricting the sale and content of the wholemeal loaf.]

LORD CHESHAM

My Lords, it is the Government's policy not to interfere with the normal economic development of the baking industry. The types of bread produced are determined by the economic demand. No doubt, this also applies to the wholemeal loaf.

LORD TEVIOT

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his reply, I should like to ask him whether it is not a fact that certain large baking undertakings are getting a subsidy. I am told they are. I should be glad if the noble Lord could give me some information on that point. But the small bakers, I understand, are not getting any subsidy. If the noble Lord could not answer that question straight away, perhaps he could on another occasion.

LORD CHESHAM

I cannot see how the noble Lord's supplementary question has any thing to do with his original Question, but, with your Lordships' leave, I should like to say to him that that is, of course, so. There is a bread subsidy and it is paid, where necessary, to large bakers and small bakers.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

I take it that the bakers will cease to receive their subsidies with the coming into operation of the decisions now being recorded in the Finance Bill.

LORD CHESHAM

I think the noble Viscount may take that as correct.

LORD HANKEY

My Lords, are Her Majesty's Government aware that this question has very important effects from the point of view of defence and economic troubles? Are they aware that in the past the existence of small bakers all over the country has proved extremely valuable, both in war and in economic difficulties in time of peace? Could the noble Lord assure the House that that aspect will be looked into?

LORD CHESHAM

My Lords, as a supplementary question, that raises really a vast field of debate—questions of defence and so on—and I do not think that it would be proper for me to answer the noble Lord now. There will probably be quite suitable occasions in the future for the whole matter to be discussed.

LORD HANKEY

Could I feel assured that this aspect, which is serious—my own experience of it is very full—will be carefully examined? It was admitted in another place that restrictive practices were being indulged in and that the small firms and small concerns have been bought up. If that is so, it means the disappearance of the small baker who used to bake the bread and have a stock. I must not make a speech, but perhaps the noble Lord can assure me that that aspect will be looked into.

LORD CHESHAM

What I will assure the noble Lord is that all questions which may affect the economic state of the country and the public interest, including questions of defence, are constantly in the minds of Her Majesty's Government.

VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

My Lords, is it not better for us to understand straight away what the real position is behind the original Question on the Paper? There are those who support the production of wholemeal bread, and there are also the economic circumstances of the industry. Are not the small bakers being squeezed out everywhere because they can no longer afford to pay for delivery? At the same time women are going into industry; they are not at home when the baker calls, and they go to the corner shop which is supplied by these enormous combines. We may as well have the whole truth while we are talking about this matter, and we can look into it afterwards.

THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY)

My Lords, as the noble Viscount has risen, I think this is getting into the nature of a debate, and I suggest that the proper course would be for the noble Lord, Lord Hankey, or somebody else to put down a Motion on the subject, if they wish to have it discussed. I do not think it arises as a supplementary to the original Question.