§ 2.37 p.m.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will expedite action to reduce the congestion on the roads by the transport of abnormal loads of the nature of the twenty-two 90 feet long storage tanks which are at present passing, or are about to pass, through the centre of the country and through the already over-trafficked city of Oxford, and if they will immediately issue instructions that the balance of these loads are not allowed to travel on the roads between the hours of 6 a.m. and 10 p.m.
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (LORD MANCROFT)My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Lucas of Chilworth, well knows, there is no easy solution to the problem of exceptionally wide or heavy indivisible loads on the roads. Owners of vehicles carrying such abnormal loads 1042 must give notice to the police, who have powers to control the timing of movement. A ban on the movement of such loads by day might not be in the interests of safety; nor in many cases would it ease the flow of traffic.
I sympathise, of course, with the anxiety implicit in the question of the noble Lord, Lord Lucas of Chilworth, and prompted no doubt by recent photographs that have appeared in the Press of one of many such abnormal loads on its way through the City of Oxford. Last November the Government issued a circular to those concerned, putting forward certain proposals for discussion on this problem. The whole question of further measures to control the movement of these abnormal indivisible loads is still being considered by the Government in the light of the replies they have received.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, would the noble Lord accept an expression of my personal appreciation of what he himself is doing? And would he also accept my suggestion that these loads should be kept off the roads during the hours of daylight, especially as we are now nearing the peak time for holiday traffic? Is the noble Lord aware that one of the twenty-two juggernauts—of which, as he quite rightly said, photographs have appeared in the Press—passed through the City of Oxford last Saturday afternoon at 2.45, which is the peak time for pedestrian and vehicular traffic? Was that, I ask the noble Lord, with the consent of the police? At the same time that this was happening another similar load, though not of the same type, broke down in the High, so that there then had to be one-way traffic. When I spoke to the police about it, they said that their permission had not even been asked for it to come. Cannot we get some order out of this confusion? Would the noble Lord recollect that he himself said in your Lordships' House on June 12 [OFFICIAL REPORT, Vol. 197 (No. 101), col. 911]:
I believe that the constant frustration of the traffic jams on the raid contributes to accidents by causing irritation and bad temper…If the noble Lord would accept my suggestion, I think that that might be alleviated.
§ LORD MANCROFTMy Lords, I must confess that I have some sympathy with the grievance which the noble Lord 1043 has just ventilated. I am unable to reply on the specific point of the juggernaut which settled down in the High at the time he mentioned. I should be very much surprised to hear that the movement of that vehicle was not known to the police and was not made with their permission. As I have already informed the noble Lord, the police have the right to control such movement. And I should like to reiterate what I said concerning the question of daylight movement. The police are not satisfied that sending these loads by night, however much that might reduce the strain on traffic during the day, is really conducive to the safety of the roads.
§ LORD LAWSONMy Lords, I think it would be wrong to allow this Question to pass as though this were the kind of thing that applied only to Oxford. As a matter of fact, the sort of thing of which the noble Lord, Lord Lucas of Chilworth, complains has been growing throughout the country. The length and height of the loads which come on to the roads have been increasing and these vehicles are becoming a menace. I would suggest that there is only one place for these loads and that is on the railway. It is time that steps were taken seriously about this.
§ LORD MANCROFTI agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, that this is a serious matter. But people do not send these loads on to the roads for fun. Very often their size is such that they cannot go at all by railway. I agree that it is a problem which is not confined to Oxford. But it is a very complicated problem indeed. It is for this reason that we have asked for the views of all concerned and are now trying to work out some solution to the problem.