§ 2.35 p.m.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that, although there is the procedure in the Legal Aid Scheme under which, after a certificate has been issued, the defendants can suggest to the area committee that the certificate should be withdrawn on the ground—to be supported by the defendants' evidence—that the assisted person has no case, or no case likely to succeed, in practice, in England, this procedure is of little value to defendants because the committee will only consider withdrawing the certificate if circumstances can be shown which take the legally-aided person out of the Act; and whether Her Majesty's Government will consider the advisability of taking such steps as are necessary to remedy this situation.]
§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT KILMUIR)My Lords, the procedure referred to by the noble Viscount enables legal aid to be withdrawn when it is considered that the assisted person no longer has reasonable grounds for the proceedings or, as the case may be, that in the particular circumstances it is unreasonable for him to continue to receive legal aid. I think the noble Viscount will agree that this procedure gives wide powers for controlling cases in which legal aid has been granted. The committees cannot, of course, enter into any pre-trial of the issues involved, but I have no information that they are limiting their decisions to the category of case referred to by the noble Viscount. On the contrary, I am informed that in just under two years, 724 cases have come 418 up for consideration and in 511, or 70 per cent., legal aid has been withdrawn. This would seem to indicate that the procedure is of value to assisted persons' opponents.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg to thank the noble and learned Viscount the Lord Chancellor for his Answer. It is, of course, an Answer to my second Question—I have two Questions on the Order Paper. Perhaps the noble and learned Viscount will answer my first Question later. However, may I now thank the noble and learned Viscount for his reply to my second Question, and may I ask him whether he is aware that the case as put on the Order Paper by myself comes to me as a result of the experience of three eminent firms of solicitors—whereby aid has not been withdrawn by the committee unless they were able to point to conditions under which the plaintiff ought to be taken out of the action. That being so, may I ask the noble and learned Viscount the Lord Chancellor, after the "hammering" that this particular practice has received in this House, whether he will not consider applying to the English system the Scottish system, which is so dear to his Scottish heart?
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, I am sorry if I have inconvenienced the noble Viscount by answering his second Question first. I am grateful to him. But with regard to the point that he has raised, I am quite satisfied that these committees do consider representations from the defendant's solicitors on the broadest grounds; and on this point I would refer the noble Viscount to the Report on the scheme of the Select Committee in another place, and to paragraph 90 which deals with this point. I think he will find that it is being worked on these broad grounds and not on the narrow basis of whether the person comes within the Act. With regard to the other matter, the noble Viscount knows that I am always susceptible to a Scottish appeal, but I cannot take it much further than the answer I have already given him.
LORD SALTOUNMy Lords, may I ask the noble and learned Viscount whether, if there is any question of appeal, a particular person's case might be reconsidered?
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, of course a case could go back to the area committee; but if, as I assume, the cases continued, if the noble Viscount will bring them to my attention, I will see that the Law Society also receives them from me, and I will get reports from the various area committees and consider the cases personally. I will do that with pleasure.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg to ask the other Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, following on the Fifth Report of the Law Society on the operation and finance of Part I of the Legal Aid and Advice Act, they are in a position to indicate any conclusions to which they may have come regarding improvements to the Scheme envisaged by the Act.]
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, with regard to this Question, since the Law Society presented their Fifth Report on the Operation and Finance of Part I of the Legal Aid and Advice Act, 1949, the Select Committee on Estimates have made a detailed investigation of the Legal Aid Scheme and have published a comprehensive Report upon it which the noble Viscount has no doubt seen. That Committee, while recording their conviction that, in general, the Scheme is well run and that proper regard is shown for economy, make twelve recommendations for improving the administration of the Scheme. I have recently submitted to the Select Committee my observations upon their recommendations and these will no doubt be published when they have been reported to another place. If, when the noble Viscount has seen my observations, there are any matters he would like to discuss, perhaps he will get in touch with me.