§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask the Leader of the House whether Her Majesty's Government intend to permit a free vote in to-day's debate on the Death Penalty (Abolition) Bill and, if so, whether they intend to base their actions on the result of such free vote in this House.]
§ THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY)My Lords, the answer to the first part of the noble Viscount's Question is in the affirmative. The answer to the second part is that the Government will consider their further action when they have seen the resin: of the vote.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, in our view it is desirable that the House, before voting, should know the intentions of Her Majesty's Government. In another place, a vote was taken on the question of principle on February 16, in which the representative of the Government, the Lord Privy Seal, indicated that the Government would be guided by the effect of the vote that day. In fact, ever since, although they were defeated, they have been advising against the principle of the Bill. We want to know, before we vote, whether or not the Government will stick to the pledge which was made by the Lord Privy Seal on February 16.
§ THE MARQUESS or SALISBURYI am afraid that I am not prepared to go beyond what I have already said.
LORD SALTOUNMy Lords, may I ask Her Majesty's Government whether their answer to the noble Viscount's Starred Question implies that they maintain what used to be the old doctrine: that the giving of a Bill a Second Reading in your Lordships' House, necessarily implies acceptance of the principle? Because I hold that that has been utterly done away with by the Parliament Acts.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYThe answer to that question is that I propose to deal with that particular point when I reply to the debate.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, may I respectfully put a question to the noble Marquess? I believe that there are over fifty, or even sixty, names on the list to speak in the debate. Would it not be possible for the noble Marquess to reconsider his plan for crowding it all into one-and-a-half day's debate, without a dinner break? We all want to hear every word that is spoken, and I beg him to consider whether it is the best course in the public interest to try to crowd those distinguished speakers into fifteen hours.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI sympathise with what the noble Viscount says, but if he had been here last week he would have known that all this was carefully discussed and the conclusion which was reached was reached with the agreement of all Parties. During the month of July this House is always tremendously overcrowded with Business, and it was in the interests o all Parties that other Business which had to be taken should be taken on the Wednesday. Therefore, it was decided that we should do our utmost to conclude this debate in two days, and I am afraid that it is impossible to alter that arrangement now.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMay I return to the Question on the Paper? I am obliged by the answers of the noble Marquess, which to me are inconclusive, but I should like to know this—it is for the guidance of the House in voting on this Bill, whether it is against the Second Reading or not. In view of the fact that the principle of the Bill has been accepted in another place 563 on three separate occasions, do I understand that if a majority of your Lordships vote against the Second Reading on this occasion the Government will then follow their pledged undertaking to give time in another place for this Bill to proceed next Session under the Parliament Act? We ought to know now.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI do not think it is in the least necessary for the noble Viscount to know now.
§ SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Hear, hear!
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYThe debate will take place on the arguments for and against the Bill. It is not in the least necessary that the noble Viscount should look forward beyond this. Noble Lords will come to a conclusion on the arguments, which may be powerful, one way or the other. After the Bill has been passed or rejected, as the case may be, then will be the time to consider that.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMay I return to my question? This is a Private Member's Bill—I am not showing any disrespect to my own leaders by putting this question. We in this House notoriously have very little to do—a couple of hours three days a week—but when it comes to this, which is the most important criminal and constitutional question for a long time, the House is being, I consider, indecently forced into an abbreviation of debate.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I really think that the noble Viscount's complaint should be directed to another place, rather than here. We received this Bill only a week ago and we have other large Bills to deal with. This Bill is a Private Member's Bill, and the Government cannot be regarded as responsible for the time it took in another place. We have only a limited amount of time and we are making the best use of it that we can.