DEPARTMENT OF SCIENTIFIC AND INDUSTRIAL RESEARCH BILL [H.L.] (Hansard, 19 April 1956)

§ THE EARL OF SELKIRK
My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Salisbury. I beg to move the Third Reading of this Bill. There are, rather unusually, two or three Amendments to be moved on Third Reading, and perhaps I may deal generally with them in the remarks 1152 that I make now and then move them formally. During the Committee stage of the Bill my noble friend Lord Salisbury undertook to examine certain points mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Cherwell, in relation to subsection (3) of Clause 1. There is no question of the wording of the Bill as it stands limiting the power of D.S.I.R. to encourage and support scientific research in the universities. As the noble Marquess said, the Bill gives very wide powers indeed. None the less, the first Amendment seeks to make it abundantly clear that what the noble Lord, Lord Cherwell, has in mind is, in fact, already covered in the Bill. I hope that it will meet the point the noble Lord has in mind. It is not mandatory, but is permissive. We should not like to go further than that; but we do mention university research, making it clear that Parliament has in mind that that form of research should be supported by D.S.I.R. The second and third Amendments, which really go together, are not much more than clarifying Amendments. The first part of subsection (4) is added to subsection (3), and the last sentence remains a substantive subsection by itself. I think this makes clear what is intended, and I hope that it meets fully what the noble Lord, Lord Cherwell, has in mind.
Finally, I should like to say a word or two on a point into which my noble friend promised to go at the request of the noble Lord, Lord Wilmot of Selmeston, on Second Reading. The noble Lord asked whether it was possible to publish, if not the full version of the Final Report of the Jephcott Committee at least a résumé of their recommendations. My noble friend Lord Salisbury has asked me to say that he has again examined the Report, but he is afraid that this only confirms his previous view, that to publish it, even in part, would be undesirable. One reason for that is that, taken in isolation and without the arguments which led to them, the conclusions of such an abbreviated Report might be misleading. But the main point which my noble friend wishes to emphasise is that the various conclusions in the Report relate purely to domestic matters of internal administration of D.S.I.R. They are advanced merely as suggestions for the consideration of the proposed new Research Council. They are not positive recommendations but merely suggestions at which the Council should look to see whether or not they 1153 should be carried out. My noble friend feels that it would be quite wrong, and unfair to the new Council, to make public such tentative proposals, which obviously would invite people to inquire to see how far they had been carried out and to know why any had not been carried cut. And they relate only to administrative matters. The only part of the Jephcott Committee's conclusions which concerns this Bill at all is the part contained in the Interim Report, which of course has already been made public. My noble friend regrets that he cannot go further.
It only remains for me, in moving the Third Reading, to say what I am sure is 'he wish of all your Lordships—that is, to wish the Department the best of luck in the productive and valuable work that it is undertaking. I beg to move.

§ LORD HADEN-GUEST
My Lords, I should like to associate noble Lords on this side of the House with what the noble Earl has said. We support the Third Reading of the Bill.

§ LORD CHERWELL
My Lords, I should like to express my thanks to the noble Marquess, the Lord President of the Council, and to the noble Earl, Lord Selkirk, for the Amendments that have been put down on Third Reading. As the Bill was originally drafted, it was a little marked that the work for industry and trade was singled out; it is now made abundantly clear that scientific research in the universities is equally intended for support. I should also like to express my hope that the new form which D.S.I.R. will now take will be as successful as the old and, if possible, even more so.

§ THE EARL OF SELKIRK
My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Salisbury, I beg to move the first Amendment which stands in his name.

§ THF: EARL OF SELKIRK
My Lords. I beg to move this Amendment, to which I have already referred. The effect is to take the first sentence out of subsection (4), and put it in subsection (3).

§ THE EARL OF SELKIRK
My Lords, this Amendment is consequential on the last Amendment. I beg to move.