§ 2.35 p.m.
LORD REAMy Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Thurso, who much regrets that he is unable to be in his place to-day, I beg to ask the Question which stands in his name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what specific plans are included in the Government's schemes for road construction and railway re-equipment for improving the communications of Heathrow and other principal airports in the United Kingdom; and whether the use of the Monorail is under consideration for this purpose.]
§ THE PAYMASTER GENERAL (THE EARL OF SELKIRK)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government have had under constant review the possibility of improving the communications between city centres and major airports throughout the United Kingdom, and of course to London Airport. Many different proposals have been considered, including the possibility of using Monorail. Her Majesty's Government would be glad to entertain any such proposals of a practical character. It is, however, perhaps fair to say that we have no reason to believe that a Monorail would be competitive with orthodox transport systems. Moreover, elevated railways, where they are in use, as in the United States, are now being rapidly abandoned.
The proposals for the improvement of roads and the programme for re-equipment of the railways recently announced 590 have not yet reached the stage when their full effect on airports can be specified. I can, however, say that the rail services to Gatwick will be greatly improved when the airport comes into operation. Work on the extension of Cromwell Road will commence in a few weeks; this will in general provide a 30 feet dual carriageway and a flyover at the junction with the Great West Road at Brentford, and should make the journey from London Airport to Central London very much easier.
LORD REAMy Lords, while thanking the noble Earl for that clear and helpful answer, may I ask whether he can give some assurance that there will be co-ordination of this type of financial assistance between rail, sea and air transport? I have in mind, particularly, the proposed payment of some £12 million to the packet ports as a basic sum. Can he say that air and rail will also be viewed in a similarly favourable light?
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKMy Lords, I am sure the noble Lord remembers that my right honourable friend is Minister of Civil Aviation as well as Minister of Transport, and I am certain that he has the interests of civil aviation clearly in mind. It is difficult in question and answer to give a precise comparison with what the noble Lord said, but in general the railway scheme, which I believe includes the packet ports, is by way of being an investment—that is to say, it authorises capital investment—whereas road expenditure is in the form of a grant. However, I will see that the point is brought to the attention of my right honourable friend.
§ EARL HOWEMy Lords, does not the answer of the noble Earl really mean that it will be a period of years—his guess is probably a good deal better than mine, but at least three, four or five years—before the improvements in communications between Heathrow and the Central London area can come into being? It is impossible to make a new road in that time. Furthermore, is it not a fact that, to a certain extent, the proposals of the Minister have been stymied by the amenity consideration? Is the noble Earl not also aware that there was a monorail system operating between Berlin and Hamburg before the war which went extremely well? Does the Answer of the 591 noble Earl really turn down all hope on this matter, or is it still being carefully considered, as I hope it will be.
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKAll these proposals necessarily have, to some extent, an amenity aspect, and I do not think anyone in the House would like that to be entirely disregarded. If the noble Earl knows any way in which, in less than a year or two, the transport facilities between Central London and Heathrow can be improved, I am sure he will let us know; and if he thinks there is a practical and proved way of operating Monorail which would help on an economic basis, we should also be glad, as I said in my original Answer, to entertain a proposal of that character. Unfortunately, at present we do not know of any.
§ EARL HOWEIs it not true to say, also, that if the traffic goes on expanding at the present rate, the position in regard to Heathrow will become impossible in a few years' time? Can this be treated as a matter of real urgency? At the present, the air traveller can spend more time in a car than he spends in the air, and that situation is likely to continue for some time.
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKThe Government are taking action in the way that I have suggested. If the noble Earl knows of better ways of doing it, then we shall be only too glad to entertain the proposals.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, may I suggest that there is a better way of doing it, and that is by creating in the centre of London and other large cities helicopter stations to serve the airports? That method, incidentally, would not involve any of these expensive projects which have been suggested. What are Her Majesty's Government doing in this Year of Grace to foster the creation of air-stops in the centres of cities?
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKMy Lords, I think that is going rather wide from where we started, although I agree it is an important matter.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, I asked the question because I thought that it arose out of the original reply of the noble Earl, in which he mentioned helicopters.
§ THE EARL OF SELKIRKI did not, in fact, mention helicopters.