§ 2.45 p.m.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the effects on Japanese fishermen of the recent explosion of the hydrogen bomb have been studied by any Department of Her Majesty's Government, and if so, by what Department; and further, what advice has been passed to the Home Office for use in providing protection for the public against such dangers.]
843§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, the effects on Japanese fishermen have not been studied at first hand by British experts, but the methods of protection against the effects of radioactive contamination on the skin are already well known from our extensive experience, including that gained from previous explosions. Recommendations for the protection of the public from injury, based on all the information available to Her Majesty's Government, are issued from time to time by the Department primarily responsible, the Home Office, who are advised as necessary by the Ministry of Defence and the Department of Atomic Energy.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, has the noble Marquess observed, both in the 1953 Report of the American Commission and after the explosion in the Pacific, that the practice in the United States was to send members of the Atomic Energy Commission to examine and to make reports? In point of fact, after what is called the hydrogen bomb explosion, Admiral Strauss himself went to the spot and made an extensive report to the American public as to methods of protection. The purpose of my Question was to ask Her Majesty's Government whether our own Atomic Energy Authority, as the only authority that has the necessary scientific equipment, will pursue a similar course.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I think the noble Viscount is under a misapprehension. I thought I made it clear in my original Answer that there is in fact no difference in the nature of radioactive injuries caused by an atomic bomb or a hydrogen bomb. The information we have already with regard to the atomic bomb is exactly the same as that which would be necessary with regard to the hydrogen bomb; therefore a further examination would not be very fruitful. Moreover, I should say, with regard to his remarks concerning Admiral Strauss and the American Government, that the United States themselves announced—on March 31—that they have not yet been permitted by the Japanese authorities to make a proper clinical examination of these Japanese fishermen. It is not to be expected, therefore, that such permission would be given to us.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMy Lords, I was only asking why, since the United States considers it necessary to send Admiral Strauss, the head of the Atomic Energy Commission, personally to examine the results on the Japanese fishermen of this explosion, we do not take comparable action, and also whether the Japanese doctor, Dr. Tsuzuki, who has examined this case with great care, has been consulted, because this a matter which potentially might be of great importance to the safety of this country.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, I am afraid that I do not agree with the noble Viscount. We have very great experts on this subject in this country and I can only give their opinion, which is that the effect of radioactivity caused by a hydrogen bomb is exactly the same as that caused by an atomic bomb. There is no difference whatever. The method of exploding and the whole character of the bomb may be different, but the radioactivity is the same. We have that information and there is no additional information that would have been gained by taking this particular action. It is not for me to answer why the American Government have taken the action they have. That is a matter for them; but what I have said is the opinion of our experts.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEMay I ask whether the Government have got into contact with this Japanese doctor; because the feeling in Japan is very strong—in fact, I understand that they have declined to give facilities. Would it not be wise, therefore, in the interests of our own nationals, that we should get in touch with Dr. Tsuzuki, who appears to be making a close and expert examination of the case?
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI am afraid that I shall never convince the noble Viscount. I am not a scientist and he probably knows more about science than I do, but I have taken the best advice to be got, and the answer, which I have given, is that the effect of radioactivity in the two cases is exactly the same. We have the information and have made a careful examination, and I do not think that any examination made by the Japanese doctor would alter our view. We have, I suppose, the most 845 experienced atomic scientists in the world, and that is the opinion they have given us.
§ LORD AMWELLMy Lords, is it possible that the noble Marquess has missed the point of the question? Is there a question as to quantitative difference? The hydrogen bomb being so much stronger than the atomic bomb, is there, by presumption, a quantitative difference?
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYNot on the individual. Obviously, the more powerful bomb creates a greater explosion, but the effect of radioactivity—I am not speaking from my own expert knowledge, for I have not got any, but I have taken the trouble to get the best I can—on the individual of one bomb or the other is exactly the same. The cumulative power, of course, is far greater.
§ VISCOUNT ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGHMy Lords, I am quite satisfied that the noble Marquess has taken all the expert advice he can on the matter. Is it now possible to have, with friendly Powers with whom we are in relation—both the United States and the Japanese Government—an exchange of information as to the ill-effects? We are all on friendly terms. If there is at present no such exchange, I suggest that it is highly desirable that there should be, because there is always the possibility of something new happening, in the nature of a scientific event, which may not have come to the notice of our scientists in this country.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI can tell the noble Viscount that, in fact, there are arrangements with the United States Government for the exchange of information on the effects, including the biological effects, of atomic explosions. But I have already explained to the House, I think, that in this particular case the Americans themselves have not been permitted by the Japanese authorities to make a proper clinical examination of these fishermen. Therefore, while the American Government, no doubt, would 846 be only too glad to share with us any information in Their power, I do not think that in this particular case the information would be of any great value.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEIs it really enough to shelter behind the unwillingness of the Japanese to assist the Americans in this matter? Is it not possible that the Japanese would be willing to tell us what harm was done, and to give us other information which, I should imagine, they possess, inasmuch as this Japanese doctor appears to be the only expert in contact with the patients?
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI know it is quite impossible to convince the noble Viscount, but I am not sheltering behind the Japanese Government or anyone else. I have taken the best scientific advice available to me, and those advising me say that the information we have is the only information we can get, because the injuries which these fishermen have sustained were caused by an explosion which was exactly the same, in its effects as it would have been if it had been the explosion of an atomic bomb; and that is a matter about which we already have information.
§ LORD WINSTERMay I ask the noble Marquess whether he has any information as to why the Japanese authorities have refused to allow American medical experts to examine these Japanese fishermen? One would have thought that the Japanese authorities would have welcomed such an examination and would, in particular, have welcomed an examination by neutral observers. Have they asked for such an examination? The whole matter seems most peculiar.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI think it is slightly peculiar, too. All I can tell the noble Lord is that the United States Atomic Energy Commission have done their best to obtain first-hand information, buy they say—and now I quote; these are not my words—
Our people have not yet been permitted by the Japanese authorities to make a proper clinical examination.Beyond that I can give the noble Lord no further information.