§ 4.18 p.m.
§ Amendments reported (according to Order).
§ Clause 1 [Rabbit clearance areas]:
VISCOUNT STONEHAVENMy Lords, this Amendment is moved following the undertaking given during the Committee stage of the Bill, and entirely meets the point that I raised then. I beg to move.
§ Amendment moved—
§
Page 3, line 21, leave out subsection (11) and insert—
(" (11) Before making an order under this section with respect to any area, the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries—
(12) Any notice under paragraph (b) of the last foregoing subsection shall indicate the nature of any directions proposed to be included in the order with regard to the steps
514
to be taken under it, and shall specify a time (not being less than fourteen days) within which persons interested in any land in the area in question may make representations in writing to the Minister with respect to the proposals; and any order made in pursuance of the notice may give effect to the proposals either without modifications or with such modifications as appear to the Minister desirable having regard to any representations made to him.")—(Viscount Stonehaven.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
VISCOUNT STONEHAVENMy Lords, the same applies to this Amendment; it is moved in response to the undertaking given during the Committee stage, and also meets the point raised then. I beg to move.
§ Amendment moved—
§
Page 4. line 27, at end insert—
(" but every such notice shall specify a time within which the occupier or any person interested in the land may submit to the Minister written objections to the notice, and shall be provisional only and of no effect, unless confirmed after the expiration of that time by a further notice in writing; served on the occupier of the land; and, where the occupier holds the land under a contract of tenancy, a copy of any notice under this subsection shall be served on any person to whom the occupier pays rent under the tenancy.
A provisional notice under this subsection may be confirmed either without modifications or with such modifications as appear to the Minister desirable having regard to any objections submitted to him.")—(Viscount Stonehaven.)
§ THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH AND QUEENSBERRYMy Lords, from an administrative point of view, I think this is rather a complicated piece of legislation. We should like to thank the Minister and his advisers for doing their best to meet the objections and enabling the object of the Bill to be carried out both clearly and effectively. We hope that, when the Bill is through both Houses, every endeavour will be made to make an early start with a suitable district, and also to secure full co-operation by voluntary effort, resorting to compulsion only when this is clearly inevitable. We hope that the Ministry will continue to bring home to all concerned with the use of land the great advantages that will ensue, both economically and in production, from the clearance of rabbits. Incidentally, in doing so they will more quickly attain the noble objectives put forward by Lord Elton at the Committee stage for ending methods of killing which bring suffering. I wish to support the Amendment.
§ EARL DE LA WARRMy Lords, I add merely that we entirely agree that the Amendment carries out assurances that were given on the Committee stage. I would thank the noble Lords for their facts.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§
Clause 8 [Restriction on type of trap in England and Wales]:
(5) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to traps of any description specified by order of the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries as being adapted solely for the destruction of rats, mice or other small ground vermin.
§ LORD DOWDING moved to omit subsection (5). The noble Lord said: My Lords, I must claim your Lordships indulgence for raising again a point which was raised on the Committee stage by the noble Lord, Lord Elton. I had something that I wished to say on the subject, but Lord Elton withdrew the Amendment, with the reservation that he might raise the matter again on the Report stage. As it has not been raised by the noble Lord I am moving this Amendment. My point is that, whatever else may be in doubt (subsection (5) is not very clear), it is obvious that under this subsection the Minister is given power to reintroduce the gin trap, provided that he specifies it "as being adapted solely for the destruction of" rats, mice or other small vermin. The gin trap has been rightly described as a diabolical instrument, and for years humanitarians have been trying to get it banned by law. If and when they succeed, it would be a tragedy if the trap were to be reintroduced by some future Minister under the wording of the subsection the omission of which I am now advocating. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 7, line 37, leave out subsection (5).—(Lord Dowding.)
§ EARL DE LA WARRMy Lords, I think that this Amendment is raised under some misapprehension. Subsection (5) is meant to deal solely with traps for rats and other small vermin, and in almost every possible case the trap concerned is likely to be the break-back trap, which I think does not worry the noble Lord. It is true that it is just possible, by stretching the meaning of this subsection, that certain very small gin traps 516 might be licensed temporarily for dealing with rats, but I think that is very unlikely. In any case, I can reassure the noble Lord that that would entail the laying of an Order before Parliament, and such an Order would be capable of annulment by the House. I hope, therefore, that the noble Lord will not feel it necessary to press this point.
§ THE EARL OF LISTOWELMy Lords, on behalf of those of us on this side who at the Committee stage took an active part in urging that the spring trap, when used for catching rabbits, should be abolished as soon as possible and that the Minister should be given the necessary power, I would say only this: we do not agree with the noble Lord, Lord Dowding, on this Amendment. As the noble Earl, Lord De La Warr, has rightly pointed out, the spring traps which are used for smaller vermin are, in fact, not inhumane—they kill these little animals instantly. There would be no objection to the use of spring traps to kill this smaller type of vermin, at a time when they were banned for the killing of rabbits.
§ On Question, Amendment negatived.
§ Clause 10 [Amendment of Agriculture (Scotland) Act, 1948, as to spring traps]:
§ EARL DE LA WARRMy Lords, this Amendment is moved as a result of the thorough discussion on this point on the Committee stage. It is really an attempt to put the drafting in a more suitable form. I beg to move.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 9, line 28, after (" (4)") insert ("Subject to the provisions of the next following subsection,").—(Earl De La Warr.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ EARL DE LA WARRMy Lords, the same point that I made on the last Amendment applies here. I beg to move.
§ Amendment moved—
§
Page 9, line 44, leave out from beginning to end of line 5 on page 10, and insert:
(" (5) The Secretary of State may,—
and after such regulation has been made it shall not be lawful for the Secretary of State, unless the regulation is revoked under subsection (1) of section five of the Statutory Instruments Act, 1946, to grant an authority under the last foregoing subsection.")—(Earl De La Warr.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ EARL DE LA WARRMy Lords, this is consequential on the Amendment that I have already moved. I beg to move.
§ Amendment moved—
§ After Clause 10, insert the following new Clause:
§ Amendment of s. 85 (3) of Agriculture (Scotland) Act, 1948
§
"11. After subsection (3) of section eighty-five of the Agriculture (Scotland) Act, 1948 (which provides that any power conferred by that Act to make an order shall include a power to revoke or vary the order) there shall be inserted the following proviso:—
' Provided that in relation to the power of the Secretary of State to make orders under subsection (4) of section fifty of this Act this subsection shall have effect subject to the provisions of subsection (5) of the said section fifty."—(Earl De La Warr.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.