§ 2.35 p.m.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, with reference to the British trade mission now in Moscow, if any items on the strategic list are permitted in the future to be exported to Russia they will, seeing that it is common knowledge that Russian support of various natures was accorded to China during hostilities in Korea, take any step necessary to bring about circumstances in which similar items will be permitted to be exported to China.]
§ LORD MANCROFTMy Lords, if the noble Viscount, Lord Elibank, will forgive me for saying so, his Question is, at the moment, a purely hypothetical one, and I can therefore do no more than remind him, as I have done on numerous occasions during the past twelve months, that the embargo on strategic exports to China is applied in discharge of our obligations under the United Nations Resolution of May, 1951; and, in the view of Her Majesty's Government, reconsideration of the embargo, in concert with the other members of the United Nations, must depend on the more favourable development of events in the Far East.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, in thanking the noble Lord for his answer, may I ask, in view of the trade mission in Moscow, in what manner the strategic embargo is to be operated?
§ LORD MANCROFTMy Lords, if I may say so, with even greater respect, that supplementary seems to me even more hypothetical than the question out of which, ex hypothesi, it arose. I think it would be far better to await the return 880 and the views of these business gentlemen after their visit to Moscow.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKWith great respect, is it hypothetical to ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that, according to The Times and my information, three British firms in Moscow have obtained contracts, or orders, for machine tools which are on the strategic list? Have they been pursuing a wild goose chase in Moscow, or will they be able to execute their export orders?
§ LORD MANCROFTMy Lords, I think it far better that we should wait until these business men come back, and then study what orders they have obtained and consider the matter in the whole light of their visit, rather than take some individual order and answer a hypothetical question about it.
§ LORD OGMOREIs the Minister aware that on television last night returning members of the trade mission to which he has referred said that the Russians hoped to order more than £400 million worth of goods from this country? If that is so, is not my noble friend's question entirely relevant to this particular point?
§ LORD MANCROFTMy Lords, I heard rumours of this television programme, but until one knows whether the £400 million worth of orders refer to this or that type of goods, I think it would be most unwise to try to answer questions about the matter.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEIs the noble Lord aware that the commercial world is very concerned about this point? May I ask him a plain question? It is: Would the Government be prepared to give a permit for the export to Russia of the goods which are not permitted to be exported to China?
§ LORD MANCROFTI am, of course, aware that the commercial world is worried about this matter. But I am also aware that the two lists, the Russia embargo list and the China embargo list, are totally different lists.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEIf they are different—and the noble Lord must know about both—he can answer my question: Is it permissible to export to Russia goods which are not permitted to be exported to China?
§ LORD MANCROFTIt depends upon the goods—and, if I may say so with respect to the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, it depends upon the Question which is on the Order Paper; and that is not the Question.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEI would ask the noble Lord to remember that these constant evasions on a perfectly plain issue will create the worst possible impression in the commercial world.
§ LORD MANCROFTWith the greatest respect to the noble Viscount, I do not accept that remark.
VISCOUNT EUBANKMy Lords, may I, with the permission of the House, ask the noble Lord this question on what he just said? Is he aware that—at any rate, so far as I know—no notification has ever been given to Parliament of the circumstances, or the statutory regulations, under which an embargo has been placed on Russia? Can he inform the House under what statutory regulation the embargo is being operated?
§ LORD MANCROFTThat is a very important question, and not, I think, one which should be raised as the fifth or sixth supplementary question, as this is If the noble Viscount will put that Question down on the Order Paper, I will do my best to see that he has a satisfactory answer.