§ 11.8 a.m.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, I beg to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a statement on the resignation of Colonel Arthur Young from his post as Commissioner of Police for Kenya, due to serious differences of opinion with the Government of Kenya on questions of policy.]
THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (LORD LLOYD)My Lords, noble Lords will have seen from Press Reports that Colonel Young, whose temporary appointment as Commissioner of Police in Kenya was not due to terminate till next March, has resigned. My right honourable friend and I were aware that certain differences of opinion had arisen between Colonel Young and the Kenya Government on the status of the Police but had hoped that these would be resolved by discussion in Kenya. We are awaiting a full report from the Governor.
§ LORD OGMOREMy Lords, I am sure that all noble Lords will regret the unfortunate dispute which has arisen in Kenya. May I ask the noble Lord whether he will join me in trying to arrange, through the usual channels, for a debate at an early date after the House resumes? Secondly, may I ask the noble Lord whether his attention has been drawn to a statement in the Daily Telegraph this morning which suggests that the dispute is not so much between 647 Colonel Young and the Government as between Colonel Young and the Army. Is that correct?
LORD LLOYDMy Lords, if I may deal first with the second of the noble Lord's questions, as I explained to him we have not yet received the Governor's comments on Colonel Young's resignation. I understand that Colonel Young made a number of complaints but that the main cause of disagreement was between him and the Kenya Government, and appears to have arisen out of the recommendation in paragraph 51 of the Police Commission Report on the status of the Police. The Commission recommended that the Police in Kenya should be given the same Common Law status of the constable as is enjoyed by the Police in the United Kingdom, though they recognised that the African constable would for some time require to be closely supervised by his officers.
The Kenya Government felt unable to go as far in the direction of accepting this recommendation as Colonel Young wished. Their reason was that the position in Kenya is very different from that in the United Kingdom and that the overall responsibility for the preservation of law and order rests with the Provincial Administration, which is directly responsible to the Governor. A White Paper was published on December 14 presenting to the Kenya Legislative Council the Government's decision on the recommendations in the Police Commission Report. A copy of this White Paper has not yet been received. Discussions with Colonel Young took place in Kenya in November on this conflict of views. At one point Colonel Young then threatened to resign, but it was eventually agreed that a Working Party should be set up for the purpose of resolving the difficulties. Colonel Young visited the United Kingdom in the middle of November and had a discussion with my right honourable friend. His attitude at that time was that he had come home for the purpose of seeking advice on one or two points so as to be as helpful as possible in the proposed Working Party.
Those are the circumstances leading up to this situation, so far as I know them. I have no knowledge of any dispute between Colonel Young and the Army. I have always understood that the main 648 issue of principle lay between Colonel Young and the Kenya Government. On the noble Lord's second point, I shall, of course, be only too pleased at any time for noble Lords to have an opportunity to debate the whole of this matter when we return after the Christmas Recess.
§ EARL JOWITTMy Lords, I feel sure the noble Lord will agree that all this discussion and speculation in the newspapers, which often have not complete knowledge of the facts, is undesirable. The best way to end it is by some Government statement. Has not the Colonial Secretary pronounced any views on this matter in discussions with Colonel Young and the Government of Kenya? If so, may we know what those views are?
LORD LLOYDI thought that I had explained this particular point fully to the House. It was hoped that a compromise agreeable to both parties would have been reached before the setting up of the Working Party. This has supervened. Until my right honourable friend has received the Governor's comments on this new development, obviously it is impossible for him, and quite undesirable, that he should make any statement. I have offered the noble Lord a debate as soon as we return, when the situation, we hope, will be clarified. Clearly, I could not be expected to make a statement to-day, seeing that, as I say, we have not yet received the Governor's comments.
§ EARL JOWITTWill the Government make an official statement directly the report is received?
LORD LLOYDWe cannot make a statement when Parliament is not sitting. The noble Lord, Lord Ogmore, has asked me whether we can have a debate when Parliament resumes and I have offered him a debate. I do not see what more the Government can do at the present stage.
§ VISCOUNT STANSGATEWhat is there to prevent the Government from issuing a statement during the Recess?
LORD LLOYDI am prepared to consider the point, but I should not think it would be much good issuing a statement if it cannot be discussed and debated. I should think it would be better to wait until we came back before issuing a statement.