§ 2.55 p.m.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKMy Lords, I beg to ask Her Majesty's Government the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, having regard to the fact that decisions are taken by C.O.C.O.M. (Consultative Group Co-operation Committee) sitting in Paris, which have important effects on British trade and commercial activities, they will state the composition of C.O.C.O.M.; the authority under which it was set up and acts, and what report was made to Parliament when it was constituted; the nature of its functions; to whom it submits its reports; and whether its decisions require Parliamentary sanction in any countries, and, if so, in which.]
THE MARQUESS OF READINGThe noble Viscount realises that if he wants to amplify his Question in any way, he must do it now; he cannot do it at the end.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKI am grateful to the noble Marquess. I had realised that, but I do not wish to amplify it to-day.
THE MARQUESS OF READINGMy Lords, the noble Viscount's Question is a fairly compendious and comprehensive one, but perhaps I can answer it within narrow limits. There is, I think, nothing either sinister or unconstitutional in the particular body to which he refers. The Consultative Group, of which the Coordinating (not "Co-operating") Committee is a component, is in itself a quite 205 informal body, and it consists of representatives of the Governments of the United States, Canada, Japan, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, France, Italy, Denmark, Portugal, Western Germany, Norway, Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom. It was set up some years ago, after discussion with the various Governments concerned, discussion in which we took a leading part. Its purpose is quite plain and, indeed, obvious and perfectly above board; namely, to co-ordinate and to unify such security controls on the export of strategic commodities to certain countries as are necessary to safeguard the interests and resources of the particular countries.
The Committee submits its reports to the Governments which are members of it. It is not a body which takes any formal decision, but it is rather an assemblage of representatives of the different countries who consult together with a view to harmonising and co-ordinating the security export controls. It has no executive authority; it merely makes recommendations, through each member to his particular Government, as to what the Committee considers to be right and necessary. In particular its function includes the listing and definition of the items which are subject to control, because the whole purpose of the Consultative Group is, so far as possible, to remove any discrepancies in the selection and treatment by the various countries concerned of items falling within the list, or the possible list, of strategic commodities. It is for each country to reach its own decisions in particular cases, but I can say that the lists and the definitions of items controlled by members of the Group are now, in the great majority of cases, identical. There are, of course, exceptions, such as the complete United States embargo on trade with China; but substantially the countries are, over the very wide field of goods concerned, now in agreement as regards principle and as regards practice. My Lords, I hope that that reply will meet the noble Viscount's inquiry for the moment.
VISCOUNT ELIBANKWould the noble Marquess answer the last part of my Question—namely, whether the Committee's decisions require Parliamentary sanction in any countries, and, if so, in which?
THE MARQUESS OF READINGNo, my Lords, they require no Parliamentary sanction, so far as I know, in any country. It is a perfectly informal body which is set up for fie purpose of advising the various Governments. It reports to the Ministers in charge of the Departments concerned and the decision is theirs.
§ EARL JOWITTAre its reports published?
THE MARQUESS OF READINGNo, I think not. As I say, it is a body which is convenient for joint discussion, and reports are made to the various Government Departments concerned.
§ LORD KERSHAWMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble Marquess is mindful of the disquiet that is felt in commercial circles in this country at the work of this Committee. He appears to be dismissing it very lightly, whereas the commercial people of this country regard it as having very nearly executive power. I understood the noble Marquess to say that it had not executive power, but the effect is nearly that. I wonder whether the noble Marquess knows that members of our commercial mission which went cut to the Far East in the early part of this year actually saw Belgian cable being laid in the streets of Pekin, whereas cable from this country is on the embargoed list.
THE MARQUESS OF READINGMy Lords, what the noble Lord has said illustrates one of the dangers of plunging into this subject without careful investigation. The Committee is not an executive body. As I have already said, it merely makes recommendations to the Departments concerned. The noble Lord instanced Belgian cable and British cable, just as the noble Viscount, Lord Elibank, talked the other day about theodolites. There are often various general types of articles—or, indeed, specific types—certain kinds of which are of a strategic character and certain kinds of which are not; and one of the purposes of this Committee is to decide into which of these two categories they fall. Unless it were certain that both these types of cable fell into the same category, the criticism which the noble Lord made would not be applicable.
§ LORD KERSHAWOf course not—I appreciate that. But the men who saw these cables are manufacturers of similar cables in this country, who have applied, I understand, for licences to export that particular kind of cable. If a certain kind of cable is a strategic article in Britain, it clearly ought to be so also in Belgium. When the noble Marquess gave the list of countries associated with C.O.C.O.M., I did not hear whether Belgium was among them. If she is, then it is all the more strange that that country can export electric cable which we are prohibited from exporting. And that, I may say, is not the only class of goods that falls into that kind of discriminatory category.
THE MARQUESS OF READINGWe are now, I think, getting into exactly the same difficulty that we got into when the noble Viscount, Lord Elibank, was speaking the other day, in which instances are proffered by noble Lords "out of the blue," without any definite particulars, 208 which makes it a matter of extreme difficulty to deal with them. All I can say is that, as I have pointed out, harmony on general principles over the greater part of the field has now been attained, and discussions between the various countries continue over that relatively small area on which harmony has not yet been achieved. I trust the end will be that all the countries concerned will find themselves in complete agreement over the entire field.
§ LORD KERSHAWThe noble Marquess did not say whether or not Belgium was in C.O.C.O.M.
THE MARQUESS OF READINGI am sorry, but I did mention it in the course of my original reply to the noble Viscount's Question. I said that Belgium was in C.O.C.O.M. Belgium was one of the countries the names of which I read out.
§ House adjourned at three minutes past three o'clock